John Bevere Explains the Return of Jesus, Rapture, and End Times
Inside This Episode
Bestselling author and Bible teacher John Bevere joins Eric Huffman to talk about his powerful new book, The King Is Coming, and the eye-opening discoveries he made after thousands of hours studying what Scripture really says about the return of Jesus.
In this conversation, John shares why the Second Coming isn’t meant to create fear, but hope, urgency, and a renewed passion for living faithfully today. He also challenges some common assumptions many Christians have about the Rapture and End Times and explains how understanding what’s ahead can transform the way we live right now.
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Transcript
John Bevere: The second coming of Jesus is the second most talked-about subject in the entire Bible. 318 verses in the New Testament alone talk about it. If He's talking about it this much, why aren't we? And what's His wisdom?
Eric Huffman: Do you see events taking shape that are pointing to some kind of imminent return of Christ?
John Bevere: Here's the truth. You ready for this, Eric?
Eric Huffman: If the end times are really upon us, how should that impact our lives today?
John Bevere: If you look at the person who eagerly is anticipating His coming, they have the power to purify themselves even as He is pure. Wow. Think about a guy who's running a 5k race. Think about his last hundred meters. He sees the finish line. When does he run the fastest of the entire race? The last hundred meters.
Eric Huffman: Today, bestselling author John Bevere explains the surprising revelations that he uncovered after thousands of hours investigating the second coming of Jesus.
John Bevere: This is a story that started before the foundations of the world. Earth's not even been created. And God the Father says, "I want a family." What He wanted more than even a family is a bride for His Son so that His Son and His bride could rule all of His creation forever and ever and ever and ever. So the second coming isn't an event. It's a love story.
Eric Huffman: Wow. How can the bride of Christ, we, the church, be preparing ourselves until that day comes?
John Bevere: How we respond to that call He's placed on us, it determines how we're going to spend eternity. So Jesus is going to investigate our lives as believers, and He's going to compare what we did to what He called us to do. Think about that one.
Eric Huffman: I'm not sure I want to.
Hey, everybody. Welcome to Maybe God. I'm Pastor Eric Huffman. Before we jump into this powerful conversation with John Bevere about the end times, please be sure to subscribe to this channel. If you care about understanding the times that we're living in and growing in your discernment, you don't want to miss what's coming next. So hit subscribe and turn on notifications so that you stay equipped and encouraged. Now let's get started.
John Bevere, welcome to Maybe God.
John Bevere: Eric, what a pleasure and an honor to be on with you.
Eric Huffman: Bro, the honor is ours. I cannot believe it, that we're talking to you live and kind of in person by this technology. And thank you for making the time.
John Bevere: Oh, really it is. I love the way you're helping people and you sharing with me the vision of what you guys are doing that excites me even more.
Eric Huffman: Thank you, man. I'm looking forward to getting into this. I've read the latest book. We'll talk more about it in a minute. But first, for 35 years as a preacher, you said that you pretty much avoided the topic of all things end times, at least in a public sense. Why was it? Why did you actively avoid the topic of the end times for so long?
John Bevere: Well, okay, let's go back to when Lisa and I were first married. We're in our early 20s. We get 88 Reasons Why Jesus is Coming Back in September of '88. I bought it hook, line, and sinker. My friends did. Lisa didn't. The date came and went, and I started assessing. We saw it again in '92, '93, '94. We saw it again in early 2000s with Harold Camping.
The more I assessed, I didn't like the teaching of end times because I saw two problems. Problem number one is what I saw, people getting lazy. I saw people actually, on the 88 reasons, stop paying their credit cards, run their credit cards up, stop paying mortgages, stopped eating healthy, stopped going to the gym.
Then what I disliked even more is I started watching throughout people arguing about pre-trib, post-trib, mid-trib. Is there even a millennium? Is it just fictional? Is it allegorical? I didn't like all the controversy. I didn't like the ambiguity. I didn't like the controversy. People came up to me and they said, "Don't you preach on the second coming of Jesus?" I'm like, "No, no, no, I'm not called to."
Okay, now don't get me wrong. I'm reading book of Revelation, book of Daniel on my time of reading, but in 2020, God just really started drawing me in. And it started with like a 60-hour study on the book of Revelation. And that was only the beginning. And I felt the Holy Spirit tugging my heart. I mean, we're not talking hundreds, we're talking thousands of hours.
I started noticing, like Paul said to the Corinthians, examine yourself to see if you're in the faith, I started noticing the fruit in my own life and it was actually good. Far less arguments with Lisa. I'm tender with her instead of being gruff at certain times. I'm noticing I'm not as irritated by things family members do. I'm not getting upset with staff members as easily. But the thing that I also loved is ministry. I mean, don't get me wrong. I've always been passionate about ministry, but it went up a few notches. And I never found myself literally weeping saying, "Jesus, I just want to lead souls to You. I just want to do altar calls." And I realized, wait a minute, this fruit is good.
Now in the journey, I discovered something and that is this. That prophecy is the second, or I'm not going to say prophecy, the second coming of Jesus. I'm going to go that specific. Is the second most talked about subject in the entire Bible. It is also the second most talked about subject by early church fathers of the first three centuries. It is so frequent in the Bible that 318 verses in the New Testament alone talk about it. That's one out of every 30 verses.
Eric Huffman: Goodness.
John Bevere: So this is amazing. The seven-year tribulation is the most talked about time period in the whole Bible.
Eric Huffman: Really?
John Bevere: It's talked about more than Jesus' three and a half years on the earth. So I'm like, "Okay, here's where my head goes. What is God's wisdom behind this?" So already I'm beginning to see not just the fact that I'm more passionate about ministry, but I'm like, Okay, God's got to have wisdom behind this. If He's talking about it this much, why aren't we? And what's His wisdom? That's where this book came out of, is more of the wisdom behind talking about it, rather than maybe talking about blood moons, tsunamis, and all of those things. Does that make sense?
Eric Huffman: Yeah, it does. First of all, whenever I have a guest that has a book, I love when the book is clearly from his or her heart and their own journey, rather than a publisher telling them sort of, "You should write about this." To sell copies like this is clearly a passion project. I also love that it came as a result of fruit in your life. So what I'm hearing is you were different with your wife, you were different with your ministry, you were different in your own personal devotion as a result of studying what we're calling the end times. Is that right?
John Bevere: Yeah, I didn't get more lazy. I got more passionate.
Eric Huffman: Well, I think that's what's interesting is because one of the main criticisms of Christians and pastors that focus on the end times is that it would make you more complacent. "Who cares about this world if it's all going away, we're going to another world?" The evacuation kind of mentality. And so, yeah, don't pay off the credit cards, roll them up, rack them up, because sort of throwing caution to the wind, if there's a better world that's coming. You experienced the opposite.
John Bevere: Absolutely. And I realized that if eschatology, which is the study of end times, if it's correctly presented, if it is correctly heard, will energize. Think about a guy who's running a 5k race. So 5k is what? 5,000 meters. Think about his last 100 meters. He sees the finish line. When does he run the fastest of the entire race? The last 100 meters.
So same way with a football team. They're down 10 points at half, big deal. They come out and play basically the same. 10 points with five minutes left? Hurry up, offense. So when eschatology is properly proclaimed, properly heard, it creates an urgency. And that's what it did with me. And I believe that's what this message is going to do with people.
And I will say this. I went into this thinking I would never write on it. I'm thinking there are so many guys that have been writing on this for years that people respect, really solid teachers, right? I'm not going to write on this. But yet, it was confirmed by two very respected ministers, not just God speaking to my heart, because I made a covenant with God: I'll never write a book unless He speaks to me about it.
Eric Huffman: Sure.
John Bevere: Let me tell you this. I've written 25 books. As far as sales go, I think they're pushing 10 million. We've given millions to leaders overseas. I've never had a book impact me more than this one. There were mornings I went to breakfast, because I write early in the morning. I said, "Lisa, I'm sorry I'm so quiet right now. I'm so riveted by what the Holy Spirit's doing in me from this message." So I always like to say my name's on these books because I was the first guy to get to read them. You know, if God can talk through a donkey, He can certainly write through somebody.
Eric Huffman: You know what they call donkeys?
John Bevere: I'm getting so ministered to because I haven't preached a message. Here's the truth. You ready for this, Eric? In the American church, I've never preached a message on the Second Coming until this year.
Eric Huffman: Isn't that something?
John Bevere: I've been traveling for 37 years. Until this year.
Eric Huffman: I have a similar story. I've been preaching for 27 years. And, you know, I was thinking how many... that's been 1,200 plus sermons at least. And I have a pretty good catalog. I keep a pretty good organized catalog of different topics and books of the Bible I've preached on. And I could only come up with about 20 to 25 sermons about anything end-times related, not just the Second Coming of Christ, but anything end times related. I too have avoided it.
My excuse has been, John, and I want you to tell me why I'm wrong. My excuse has been that I'm called to preach to skeptics and people that have more questions than answers about the Bible and Jesus. I'm trying to get them into the kingdom. And I have felt like talking about or harping on the end times would be a turnoff to them. They would look down their noses at it because a lot of the skeptics I try to talk to think they're too smart and sophisticated to be Christians. That feels to me like in their view, the end times is maybe the most unsophisticated part of the Christian gospel. Tell me, please, why I've been wrong all these years. What have I been missing?
John Bevere: I don't want to go all the way to wrong. I'm quick to say I was wrong, but I don't want to be the person who comes here and corrects unless I've really got...
Eric Huffman: I'm asking for it.
John Bevere: I find that honestly when you speak about the Second Coming of Jesus, it is a very powerful evangelistic tool. But the whole thing is there is a fear-based eschatology and there is a faith-based eschatology. I believe the faith-based is what will draw people in, not the fear-based. But I've watched, and as I'm just starting now to talk about this, I'm seeing a lot of people get saved at the end of the message. And so it's a very good evangelistic message.
Eric Huffman: You've opened my eyes to that, your book. And just so far in our conversation, watching your other YouTube videos, it's been fascinating. And I will say my team and I were talking before we started rolling and my producer said... you know, she's a former skeptic turned Christian. And she said, "Reading this book was the first time the idea of the end times went from my head to my heart." And I was like, "That's it." That's what I've perceived as well, and that is needed. Because what you said earlier is that eschatology properly taught will light people up instead of paralyze them into inaction. But what are some of the misconceptions, let's say, that are commonly taught and talked about in Christian circles regarding the end times?
John Bevere: Well, let me frame it like this. I don't know why my mind's going there. I haven't done that with any interviews. I remember when I told our family I was going to write a book on the Holy Spirit. And my boys who were teenagers at the time were like, "Oh, dad," you know? And I was like, "Whoa, wait a minute. What is up with this?" And they started citing all the crazy churches, people we had encountered in our travels that blamed their craziness on being filled with the Holy Spirit.
And I was really concerned. And I said, "God, this is valid." And the Holy Spirit spoke to me and He said, "Who walked in more of the fullness of the Holy Spirit, who's the person that walked in more fullness than anybody else that's ever lived on earth?" And I went, "Of course, Jesus." He said, "Didn't kids jump in His lap?" And I had remembered how my kids were like this, or they were like, "Oh." And I realized what was wrong is it wasn't the Holy Spirit. He wasn't weird. It was the people that were representing Him.
I think when it comes to end times, we have to be careful from the fact that this is something that has to be presented, led by the Spirit, based out of the Word of God. And when it is, all the Word of God, when Jesus is lifted up, He'll draw all men to Himself.
Let's get back to your question, because I thought of that. What are some of the misconceptions? Okay, so I'm going to tell you what happened when I wrote the Holy Spirit book, and I'm going to compare it to this one. When I wrote the Holy Spirit book, I said, "The whole problem is anytime you say Holy Spirit, it all gets reduced down to tongues. It all gets reduced down to the gifts of the Spirit." And then we got a place to bow. And I thought to myself, "What's much more important than what a person does, who a person is?"
So the first four chapters, I spent on nothing but who is the person of the Holy Spirit. And I've had so many people say, "That warmed my heart up to when you got to what He does, His gifts." Does that make sense?
Eric Huffman: It does.
John Bevere: All right. Now, when we talk about eschatology, why is it that we got to go to pre-trib, post-trib, mid-trib? We missed the big picture. What is the big picture? A bridegroom who longs for His bride and a bride who longs for a bridegroom. This is a story that started before the foundations of the world. The Trinity has a meeting. Earth's not even been created. And God the Father says, "We're going to create man and they're going to mess up. And there's no way we can get Him back unless You go die for him, Son." And the Son said, "I'll do it." That's why He's the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
So here's God Almighty who the angels cry "Holy" and shake an arena in heaven that seats over a billion beings. Here's God who when He appears to Moses, Moses said, "I was terrified" because Moses realized how awesome He is. John the apostle falls down like a dead man when he sees Jesus and he was the closest disciple.
This scripture, "What manner of love that God has bestowed upon us" becomes so real when we understand how great this God is who created the entire universe. And then He comes down and He chooses mere mortals to be a part of His family. So what God's looking for right from the beginning is, "I want a family."
So first of all, what manner of love? Here we are specs. And He says, "No, no, I'm going to make you an heir of everything I own. I'm going to make you a joint heir with my Son." But what He wanted more, what He wanted more than even a family is a bride for His Son so that His Son and His bride could rule all of His creation forever and ever and ever and ever. I'm like, okay.
So that second coming isn't an event. It's a reuniting of two lovers that were betrothed. See, we don't get the second coming because we don't understand the ancient Jewish wedding. A lot of the talk that Jesus gives is wedding talk, and they got it because they went to their weddings. But today we have an engagement, we put the ring on her finger, I all of a sudden realized, "I don't like the decision I've made. I'm breaking the engagement." I mean, you and I know people that have done this. Not a betrothal. Betrothal, the groom goes to the bride's family. He sits down and brings the ketubah, which is the contract. He said, "I want to marry your daughter. I know it's going to pull her away from your family. I'm going to give you 500 sheep for it or whatever, 100 gold coins." For David, it was 100 Philistine foreskin. For Jacob, it was seven years working for Laban and then another seven. They agree. Once they agree, that contract signed, they drink a glass of wine and they leave each other. And now they're betrothed.
Now, betrothed means you are married. Now, why are they separated? Because that was the time they proved their faithfulness to each other. So he goes back and he builds a room off his father's house. Jesus said, "In my Father's house, there are many rooms. If it were not so, I would have told you. Behold, I'm going to prepare a place for you." That's what that groom does.
Eric Huffman: Wow.
John Bevere: He goes and builds the room to bring his bride when they consummate. So Jesus said, "I'm going to go prepare a place." These guys are like, "This is wedding talk." They know exactly what He's saying. The bride price being the blood of Jesus. God the Father paid the price for this bride for His Son by giving the precious blood of Jesus. I mean, we can go on and on and on on the analysis, right? So He goes away and nobody knows when He's coming to get His bride until His Dad says, "Go get her."
Now, the thing that's amazing is the bride and the groom each have responsibilities when they're separated. The groom builds the room where they're going to live, bride has to make her wedding dress. The bride has a mikvah, which is when she's baptized in water to show her whole community, "I am now betrothed." And betrothed is "I'm married."
The only way to get out of a betrothal is a divorce. So when Joseph hears about Mary being pregnant, he's going to put her away privately. There's a public divorce. There's a private divorce. Private embarrasses the bride. Public embarrasses the family. Joseph being a just man says, "I'm just going to embarrass her because she's pregnant." So she has been unfaithful in the time apart. Right?
Eric Huffman: Yeah.
John Bevere: Okay. So when the Dad says, "Go get her," all of his groomsmen have what's called a torchlight procession. And it always happens at nights sometimes, and a lot of times at midnight, because they want this thing to be a total surprise. So these guys come into her community, blowing shofars, torchlight, yelling, clapping, making noise. It wakes up the bridesmaids, they join the torchlight and the groom goes and snatches his bride away. Then a whole big procession starts back. All the people that are really close, they're invited to the wedding. They leave their beds. I've been invited. I leave my house, and they do a big procession. The groom runs ahead. His bride is veiled. She's covered. Nobody can see her.
When she comes in, he closes the door. He presents to her the chuppah, which is the broom that he has built for her. They consummate the marriage. He gives the bloody sheet to his best man. He goes and tells the other wedding guests and they party for seven days. This is crazy. They party for seven days while they just have a honeymoon for seven days. Then at the end of seven days, he brings her out and presents her to the wedding.
Do you remember what the Bible says? We shall be as He is when He appears. We're going to be like Him. Remember, He's coming with 10,000 of His saints. He's literally coming with His bride to execute judgment on the nations that have rebelled against His Father. Then He's going to set up His earthly kingdom, and He and His bride are going to rule together just for that 1,000 years, but then they're going to rule together for eternity future.
So in developing new countries, new cities, new galaxies, He's going to do this with His bride. Because let me tell you how I got a little insight into this. I've been married 44 years, this gorgeous girl named Lisa Bevere. The funnest thing I get to do is I get to labor with her. We co-founded this ministry and we have led this ministry for 36 years now. It has been an absolute joy.
Now, don't get me wrong. She's Sicilian, I'm Italian. We have our times. We're not going to have that with Jesus. But I see the joy of what Jesus is looking forward to. He's looking for the joy of reigning and developing and implementing and innovating new communities and countries with His bride right next to His side forever and ever, ever. That's why He says, "He who endures the end is going to sit down with Me on My throne as My Father gave Me a throne, and I'm going to give him authority over the nations." It's a love story.
Eric Huffman: It is. That's right. It is. And yet we make it into a fear-mongering, you know, a horror show, and everybody's scared about the end times. I remember when I was a kid, you know, being scared to come home to an empty house because maybe the rapture happened and I was left behind. I could tell you stories about when my wife and I were dating and, you know, making out, maybe going a little too far, you know, making out.
John Bevere: I know.
Eric Huffman: And then you look over and there's a harvest moon, you know, the blood moon or whatever, and you're like, "Oh Lord, we've messed up. We've done it." This is a fear that we instill when we misconceive of what the story really is, the love story, man. What you just told us was... I mean, I feel like we could close the interview there. We've got you for more time and we're going to talk more, but wow. My question then is, what do you see that would change in most Christian hearts and in churches if we properly understood eschatology? What practically would change?
John Bevere: I believe you'd see a church a lot more on fire and a lot more passionate about bringing change to the community and bringing the kingdom of God into the community than you do right now. Right now, a lot of American believers they basically go to church 90 minutes a week and they basically go out and kind of live for themselves the rest of the week, you know?
Eric Huffman: Yeah.
John Bevere: I think you would have people living with a lot more purpose because basically what we do with the cross, it does indeed determine where we're going to spend eternity. Most believers know that heaven or hell, but the way we live as believers determines how we're going to spend eternity. So we're literally right now... we're auditioning for our job positions forever and ever.
Eric Huffman: Ah, so it won't be an egalitarian utopia where everybody gets the same reward?
John Bevere: No. If you look at... Paul is writing only to believers in 2 Corinthians, and it's interesting. It's the most carnal church. So he has to use a lot of this talk to the most carnal church. So he says, "Hey, he said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord," 2 Corinthians 5, 7 or 8, right? So we know immediately he's not talking to all humanity, he's only talking to believers. Because only believers are in the presence of the Lord when they're absent from the body.
He said, "Therefore, we make it our goal," now listen to these words, "our goal, whether present or absent, to be well-pleasing to Jesus." Now, listen to the words well-pleasing. I remember when our boys were sitting around the table, they were in high school, and I'm always looking for little ways to kind of awaken them to reality. I looked at them one day and I said, "Guys, I want you to listen to me really quick. You can't do one thing to make your mother and I love you any more than we love you, or any less than we love you. You can't do one thing." And you could see them kind of like go, "Oh." I said, "But you are in charge of how pleased we are with us." And all of a sudden they were like, "We can't do anything, anything to make God love us any more than He loves us, any less than He loves us, but we are in charge of how pleased He is with us?"
That's why Paul said, "I make it my goal, not just be pleasing, well-pleasing." Why, Paul? "For we." Who's we? Only believers. "Will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ that each one may receive the things done in the body, whether good or worthless" is actually what that translation should have been translated.
Worthless means you retreated from assignment or you didn't fulfill assignment, in regard to the eternal. All of us have been given assignments. If you look at Mark 13, Jesus said, "The returning of the Son of Man will be like a man who went away on a long trip and gave His servants specific assignments of what they were to do."
I've got this friend who tried to go into ministry and after three years of Bible school, he was thrown out because he was accused of something he didn't do. And he went to prayer and God said, "I didn't call you in ministry. I called you to military." And he ends up becoming a Navy SEAL. And by the way, he couldn't swim because he was born with defective ears and he was in excruciating pain if he got any water in his ear. But here he became a Navy SEAL and he then was so good at what he did he became an instructor. Then he started instructing the Hawaii Five-O on how to operate as Navy SEALs. I mean, this guy, he knows what he's called to do.
There are people called to the marketplace, people called to education, people called to full-time ministry like you and I. So, how we respond to that call He's placed on us, it determines how we're going to spend eternity. Because Paul says, "Be very careful how you build on the foundation of the lordship of Jesus." Now, he is talking about Christians right now.
Eric Huffman: Sure.
John Bevere: He said, "You can build your foundation on that foundation of the lordship of Jesus. You can build using any material you want. You can do wood, hay, straw, you can do gold, silver, precious stones." He said, "But fire is going to test each of our work of what sort it is." So, the fire being the Word of God, because Jesus said, "I don't judge you. The words that I speak will judge you on that day." So, the fire will test what we did.
And he said, "If any man's work endures, he'll receive a reward." Now, what is this reward? If you go over to Hebrews, one of the foundational doctrines in the church is the resurrection of the dead and eternal rewards and judgment. Now, really quick, Eric, I feel like I'm dominating now, but when we hear judgment, where does our minds go as Christians? What's the first thing you think of when you hear the word judgment?
Eric Huffman: Hell.
John Bevere: Okay, for sure, that's one. Another one that I find most people's minds go to is condemnation. Okay, judgment, condemnation. That's not at all what the word judgment means. In Hebrews, the Greek word is krima, which means this: a decision resulting from an investigation. So, one of the foundational doctrines of the church is eternal decisions resulting from an investigation. Jesus is going to investigate our lives as believers. He's going to compare what we did to what He called us to do. Think about that one.
Eric Huffman: Yeah, I'm not sure I want to.
John Bevere: Remember, Psalm 139 says, "You wrote a book about my life before I was born. Every single day was recorded in that book. Every moment was laid out before a single day began." He's going to say, "Here's the book I wrote about you." Remember the judgment? The books are open. He's going to open up the book about our lives. He's going to say, "Let's take a look at how I wrote your life and let's see how you lived it. And let's compare."
Those whose works endured, I can't do a thing. Listen, I wanted to get an MBA. I have an engineering degree from Purdue University. I want to go to Harvard, get an MBA. And I want to go into corporate America, make a lot of money, marry a pretty girl, take three vacations a year, and tithe it up at my local church. That was my idea of serving God.
After a year and a half of dealing with me one day, the Spirit of God comes on me in a church service, 2000 people in the building, and I started going down in my chair like this. And the Holy Spirit said, "I've called you to preach. What are you going to do about it?" I heard that so clear. As clear as you are hearing me, I heard that. I said, "Okay." I was so scared of the ministry. I said, "If I end up with a smelly house and weird kids, I'll do it."
And so, thank God He was patient with me and He kept pulling at my heart for a year and a half because, you know, I'm doing what I'm called to do and I know it. And everybody that is doing what they're called to do, they know it. And that Navy SEAL friend of mine, he knows. He knows he's doing what he's called to do. And he's not in ministry.
Eric Huffman: Yeah, of course. What I hear you saying is that in the hereafter, in what's coming, we will be assigned roles in heaven, let's say, the heavenly realm, the kingdom of God, according to how we've done with our roles on earth. I'm oversimplifying maybe, but, you know, a guy that spends his life doing worthless things, but believing in the risen Jesus might be heaven's trash man or something. And somebody else might be like...
John Bevere: Thank God there's no trash in heaven.
Eric Huffman: Yeah, I don't know. It's a silly analogy, but is that...
John Bevere: You were saying it in a way people can understand it.
Eric Huffman: I'm trying to distill it so I can understand it.
John Bevere: So, can you imagine, I mean, all right, you're assigned to be on a board with Jesus that's going to develop a new galaxy. Or you're assigned to take care of maybe the throne room building on the exterior or something to do like that. I know this is allegorical. I know that I could only speak in the way that we can humanly understand.
And the other thing I want to make really clear is some people are actually afraid of heaven. They actually think it's going to be boring. They think we're going to be ethereal beings that all we do is just have a nonstop worship service and they're scared of it. I've got news for you. What created this is so much more exciting and all the good things that we have in this life, heaven will have and more. So there will be development, there'll be innovation, there'll be creativity, there will be the arts, there will be all kinds of wonderful things.
And the gifts and callings of God are without repentance. Eric, you're a preacher. Eric, you're an interviewer. You've got gifts in your life that God put in your life. You're going to be doing this forever. I mean, I realize I'm going to be a communicator. I get it. That's a gift that's on my life, right?
Eric Huffman: Yeah. So why would that stop in heaven? Yeah, I hear what you're saying. That's interesting.
John Bevere: You know, one of the coolest things is my wife had a really close friend who lost her dad and she was very close with her dad, and she really grieved. And then God gave her a very vivid dream and she saw him involved in construction. Think about this. Now, it's not going to have the hammers and the saws like we have here, but there's going to be construction.
Eric Huffman: Yeah. No city permits. None of that.
John Bevere: None of that.
Eric Huffman: That's all in hell.
John Bevere: She never grieved after that because she saw him doing what he loved to do.
Eric Huffman: Wow. That is awesome. Man, I'm going to be chewing on that for days and I know others will too, man. But there's really no other way to make sense of what the New Testament says and what Jesus said about believers being judged according to the things we've done. What's the outcome of that? Well, it's probably some kind of disparity or at least a distinction in heaven based on how we've lived our lives here and how we've stewarded our gifts. It's the parable of the talents, right? In a sense.
John Bevere: Yes.
Eric Huffman: Wow. All right, John, we got to move on, but thank you for that. That was so powerful. I'm curious, I know you have not made it a point to be the kind of teacher on End Times that identifies certain events and tries to line up all the charts and graphs and dates and everything. I just want to ask generally, because I know our listeners and viewers are wondering, do you see events taking shape that are pointing to some kind of imminent return of Christ? Do you think we're close, I guess?
John Bevere: Well, I do touch about this a little bit. I do it biblically. I talk about the timelines of mankind. I talk about what Jesus said this generation will not pass. I do talk about the signs, but I would say this is probably 30% of the message, 70% of the message is more about being prepared for the wedding because the Bible says the bride has made herself ready. We have a part in this, and that is a big part of the book.
However, I believe with all my heart, I look at this both by my relationship with the Holy Spirit and by my even more so, what He has shown from this book, from the Bible. Jesus rebuked the leaders for not understanding the times, okay? You missed the season of your visitation. You didn't understand the times. You can read the weather signs, you can't even read the signs. That's a massive part of the second coming.
So there are people today that have literally, I mean, Peter even said they would come along and say, where's the promise of His coming? Everything's remained the same since the fathers fell asleep. That actually causes you to become more fleshly. If you look at the person who eagerly is anticipating His coming, they have the power to purify themselves even as He is pure. Wow, what a contrast. But I look at these signs. I mean, I look at the super sign of Israel. How in the world? Over 1800 years, they're disposed all over the world, and they keep their traditions, they keep their beliefs and their language, and they're back in their homeland after 1,800 years speaking Hebrew? I'm like, okay, no other nation in the history of the world has ever done such a thing. Only God could do a thing, right? And Jesus says that generation will not pass.
Now, a generation is defined by Nelson's Bible Dictionary as a group of people that lived during the same time period. There are people today that were alive, there are not many, but there are people today alive that were in World War II, 1940 to '45. Do we realize we're talking 80 to 85 years ago? There are people that will make it 100 years. So I look at, when does the super sign begin? And I do not understand why so many Bible teachers always make the marker 1948. It's not 1948, it's 1967. Because Jesus said Jerusalem would be trampled down by the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. Time of the Gentiles being the church age, which is a 2000-year period, which Hosea makes crystal clear, which writers of the early church and the ancient Jewish fathers made clear that there would be an age of grace.
The Essenes wrote this 150 years before Jesus was born. There would be an age of grace that would last 2000 years. Look at Hosea said, after two days, He'll revive Israel. And on the third day, He'll raise us up that we live in His sight. That's the millennial reign of Christ. So clear. So you can take Jesus' words that that generation will not pass away. So I see that generation, the time clock beginning, not 1948, but 1967 when they got after the six-day war, they got Jerusalem back. I look at it as 100 years being 2067. So I'm not saying He's not coming back till then. I'm not saying He's even coming back. I'm saying we're in that season. We're definitely in that season.
Eric Huffman: Yeah. You're looking at the signs. Yeah. And if it doesn't happen by then or by some people, they look at 2030 being the 2000-year mark from Jesus' death and resurrection. It's like, let's not get too hung up on dates and things, but stay vigilant. Keep watching, keep waiting. And most importantly, as I got from your book and your talks, get prepared. Work now and pray now and live now as though you're preparing yourself for the Bridegroom to appear and snatch you away.
Now, in that spirit, along those lines, the snatching away, I want to talk, of course, about what's called the rapture. What do we know about these end times events, like the rapture and the things that would follow that? I think you're a pre-trib guy, although you don't really... that's not a badge you wear like a lot of other pre-trib people are. But just talk to us about what we know for sure is going to happen and what's still a mystery.
John Bevere: Well, first of all, my wife and I don't even agree on this and we joke about it.
Eric Huffman: Same. Same here.
John Bevere: From this point forward, everything I say is meant to comfort and encourage, as Paul said, not to give you fuel to be dogmatic and argue with your friends. I have friends that are post-trib and I respect them highly. However, I stuck with the scripture on this, and I see overwhelming evidence and very clear evidence that Jesus will return for His bride prior to the seven-year tribulation. It's kind of interesting. Can I show you something fun?
Eric Huffman: Please.
John Bevere: I figured in order to really understand the second coming, look at the first coming. Was there uncertainty? Yes. Was there ambiguity? Yes. Was there controversy? Yes. Right?
Eric Huffman: Sure.
John Bevere: There were people that got it wrong. The Pharisees couldn't recognize Him when He was 30 and raising the dead, but Simeon recognized Him when He was 40 days old in the temple.
Eric Huffman: Yeah.
John Bevere: So I'm like, who is this guy, Simeon? After heavy, heavy research, I found out he was part of the Essene community. The Essenes started 150 years before Christ and they were a very devout group. They really, really took the word of God seriously. They're the ones that hid the scrolls in the caves of Qumran. Many believed Simeon was an Essene. The Essenes predicted to the week Messiah's execution 150 years before Jesus was born. We have their writings from the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Eric Huffman: Wow.
John Bevere: To the week. Now, very clearly they did it from Daniel's prophecies and other things, right?
Eric Huffman: Yeah.
John Bevere: But we're told the day or the hour, nobody's gonna know.
Eric Huffman: Sure.
John Bevere: So the first coming, they weren't told that. The second coming, we are told that because the Father wants it to be like the Jewish wedding. He wants it to be something that's imminent where we keep ourself prepared.
But what I look at is I look at 1 Peter. 1 Peter 1:10-11, Peter talks about the prophets of old, now listen to this, who searched, who inquired and searched diligently of what time or manner Messiah would come first. Okay, you're going over there, I see. So I'm gonna actually wait and let you get over there.
Eric Huffman: I'm in there. I'm with you.
John Bevere: Okay, see how it says the prophets who inquired and searched diligently, they prayed like crazy. 1 Peter 1:10 and 11. They prayed like crazy and they searched like crazy. They had prophecy meals, the early church of the first three centuries actually, where all they did is talk about the prophetic scriptures. So now I'm trying to understand the second coming and the Lord says, go back and look at the first coming. And I'm seeing that this guy Simeon, I'm seeing that these Essene communities and the prophets who really got it right searched the word of God diligently and prayed diligently, right?
Eric Huffman: Yeah.
John Bevere: So you know what really does kind of irk me a little bit, can I be honest, Eric?
Eric Huffman: Mm-hmm.
John Bevere: Is when people say, give me the one scripture.
Eric Huffman: Yeah, yeah, sure.
John Bevere: That's when I'm like, Okay, guys, come on. Really?
Eric Huffman: Show me the word rapture in the Bible or show me... Yeah, I hear you.
John Bevere: First of all, if it's the second most talked about subject in the Bible, that means it's going to take a lot of searching. And what the Holy Spirit said to me is He said, son, it's like a jigsaw puzzle. Do you know, I have a board member who looked at me and said, "The only book I haven't read is the book of Revelation." I said, "Why?" He said, "It scares me. And it's so ambiguous, I don't get it." Now, let me show you what the Holy Spirit showed me. You ready?
Eric Huffman: Ready?
John Bevere: This is one of my grandchildren's puzzles. Okay?
Eric Huffman: Okay, yep.
John Bevere: Can you tell me what that's a picture of?
Eric Huffman: I cannot from here, but my eyes are bad.
John Bevere: That's the person that spends no time studying the prophetic scriptures.
Eric Huffman: Ah, yeah. Just sees a bunch of pieces.
John Bevere: Now, I'm a teacher and I got a class of about 40 people. And I say, "Break up into 10 groups, four people each," and I give each of them this puzzle. First group that tells me what part of the world, what region of the world this is at, you win. So we got a couple of people and what they do, they assemble these pieces and go, "Arctic, Arctic, Arctic". And the teacher goes, "No." Then we have another group that goes, "Oh, McDonald's farm, North America, North America, North America." The teacher goes, "No." Then we got another group that assembles this and goes, "China, we got it. It's China." And the teacher goes, "No." Then we got another, they assemble this and go, "India, India." The teacher goes, "No." Now we got a group that does a few more pieces, does a lot more than the other group, and they go, "Oh, without a doubt, this is Africa, giraffes, elephants." She goes, "No." Then we got the wise group. They diligently put the puzzle together and they go, "Middle East."
Eric Huffman: Ah, Noah's Ark.
John Bevere: Noah's Ark. That's prophecy.
Eric Huffman: Putting it all together.
John Bevere: This is why we're getting such arguments because they've just taken a few scriptures and they're so convinced it's the Arctic. And then you got another group that's put these things together and they're so convinced it's India. And they have these sharp arguments and you're like, "Guys, would you please remember we know a part and prophesy a part?" So, I'm going to be the first to admit that's why I spent thousands of hours.
Now, I didn't just study on my own. I also listened to people like Perry Stone. I listened to people like Jimmy Evans. I listened to people like Rick Renner, who are very solid. Jack... What's Jack name up there?
Eric Huffman: Oh, yeah. I know who you're talking about.
John Bevere: The funny one.
Eric Huffman: Hibbs.
John Bevere: Jack Hibbs. I listened to solid, solid, solid biblical Bible teachers on this subject. But then I spent a whole lot of time personally inquiring, searching, and that's where this came from. I mean, there's probably well over 1,000 hours and maybe into 2,000, I don't want to exaggerate, behind that. Well, I'm hoping this will inspire people, number one, first and foremost, to be more in love with Jesus and look forward to this great wedding day and to be better witnesses of Jesus. But I also hope they'll help open up the prophetic scriptures to them so they'll have a foundation to build off of in their personal study.
Eric Huffman: Yeah. So what elements of the end times can we trust are clear and can we look forward to? Just walk us through, if you can, sort of the events to come.
John Bevere: Okay. I hate to do this, but I'm going to do this. I make it really clear in the book. I say in this book, there are times, and I will tell you these times when I'm writing, that this is my interpretation and you don't have to agree with me. But all the other times I write, this is truth, and it's unchanging truth.
So when Jesus says this generation will not pass, He prefaces it with heaven and earth can pass away, but My words won't. And I'm thinking, wow, that's kind of a real stamp of, you better listen. So now my interpretation of that, I make very clear, this is my interpretation. But one thing's for certain is there is a generation that He points some things out that will not pass until everything comes true. So that's when I really get firm. And on the other, I say, Hey, listen, like I said, if you disagree with me, hey, my wife and I joke about it. It's not a dividing point. I'm trying to help you. I'm trying to bring the comfort I believe the word of God brings to you, but I'm not going to argue with you.
Eric Huffman: So my wife and I also disagree about eschatology specifically. Well, about the rapture, I guess. Although I will say it's not that we disagree, it's that she is certain and I'm squishy. And so she is convinced of a pre-trib rapture. We had Pastor Gary Hamrick on the show recently, and he's big-time pre-trib. And she was like, "See, I told you. I'm right." And he was like, "Yep, she's right." And that's been a big topic around my house.
John Bevere: Our marriage is exactly the opposite. I'm very strong. I personally very strongly believe what I've seen in diligent, diligent, diligent study, not from what everybody else says. In my own diligent study. I don't see how a mid or a post can work because there's too many scriptures that just wouldn't make any sense. But I can see how pre makes sense with every single scripture I see.
Eric Huffman: Sure. And I don't dispute that for a second. I think I'm just not quite there enough to go all in with the pre-trib, but I'm not anti-pre-trib either. I'm going to hedge my bets and be surprised by the pre-trib when it happens, rather than disappointed if it doesn't. That's how my silly mind thinks.
John Bevere: I'm going to be the first to say I could be wrong.
Eric Huffman: Yeah, sure.
John Bevere: And I don't want to be firm on this.
Eric Huffman: I love that you're leaving room for faithful Christians to disagree about some of the things we're talking about. But let me just talk about suffering, because I think one thing Pastor Gary Hamrick said, and others have said to me, is that a pre-trib rapture must be true because Christ wouldn't allow His bride to get beaten up in the tribulation, because He loves His bride, and so He's going to snatch her away before the tribulation. And people in the comment section of Gary's episode and others I've talked to, and myself too, I feel like, well, the church, His bride has already been beaten up pretty severely at times throughout the years. That argument doesn't seem to hold up to what we see.
John Bevere: Yeah, but God didn't beat them up.
Eric Huffman: Sure. No. That's the distinction. And that's what I want to get at. In your book, you make the distinction between lowercase t, tribulations and troubles that we're going through, and uppercase Tribulation that's coming. Just talk to us about the difference between the two.
John Bevere: Jesus said we're going to have tribulation in this world. I mean, just last year, in one month alone, 700 Christians were absolutely butchered in Nigeria. The last hundred years, more people have been martyred for their faith than ever, ever before in the time of history of mankind. Tribulation, in this world, we're going to have tribulation. That is little t, as you just said. That is the world's wrath against God's children. But the Tribulation, capital T, is God's wrath against a sinful, rebellious world. So why would God want to beat up His church on the wrath that's intended for the rebellious nations, and then take her to dinner and a wedding? It'd be like me beating up my wife seven days before my marriage, and then saying, "Let's get married."
Eric Huffman: "Aren't you happy?" Yeah.
John Bevere: So you got to draw a distinction.
Eric Huffman: I think that's very helpful. I think that's...
John Bevere: Wrath against us. The Tribulation, it's called the fierceness of His wrath, and there are tons of scriptures on it describing it in Isaiah. I mean, do you know what Isaiah writes? That the day of the Lord, which the day of the Lord is a seven-year tribulation, is going to be so fierce and cruel that when it's over, mortal flesh will be as rare as fine gold. Rare as fine gold. I mean, just one of the seal judgments takes out 2 billion people. And then you look at one of the bowl judgments, it's another few billion people.
Eric Huffman: Right.
John Bevere: Jesus said, there's never been a time period that's been as horrific as this time period.
Eric Huffman: What about the argument, though, that the rapture, the pre-trib rapture was sort of a late concoction or invention of the dispensationalists in the 19th century, and it wasn't ever a part of the church? That's another argument that you hear a lot. What do you say to that?
John Bevere: Oh, that's so easy. So the big trigger name is...
Eric Huffman: Darby, right?
John Bevere: Is John Nelson Darby. I have a friend who actually was like, John Nelson Darby conjured it up and all this stuff. And I went to this friend and I said, "Please, please, I just don't want to see you speak error." I said, "Quite honestly, I'm going..." I list in this book... okay, so let me get there, because I think it's important.
Eric Huffman: Sure, take your time.
John Bevere: I'm going to list early church fathers who wrote about a pre-tribulation rapture. The Shepherd of Hermas wrote about it in AD 150. Hippolytus wrote about it in AD 210. Cyprian wrote about it in AD 250. Let me give you another one. Against Heresies is a book that Irenaeus wrote. He lived from AD 130 to 203. Irenaeus was discipled by a disciple who John discipled. Irenaeus actually met John the Apostle.
Listen to what he writes in right around 160 to 170 AD: "And therefore, when in the end, the church will be suddenly caught up from this, then it is said, there will be tribulation such has not been since the beginning, nor will be."
Victorinus, he was the bishop of Eastern Europe during the time of AD 240. He writes, "Wrath of God always strikes the obstinate people, and these shall be in the last time when the church has gone out of her midst."
Eric Huffman: Wow.
John Bevere: But the most compelling is Ephrem the Syrian. He was a bishop. "For all the saints and the elect of God are gathered prior to the tribulation that is to come and are taken to the Lord, lest they see the confusion and the great tribulation coming upon an unrighteous world." So that's the first three centuries. That's just three of them. And I mean some of the other guys.
Now, disclaimer, disclaimer, there were early church fathers who didn't agree. They had this same thing going on, but John Nelson Darby didn't invent this.
Eric Huffman: The idea that the rapture is a late-arriving myth is itself a late-arriving myth. It's fascinating.
John Bevere: Eric, you just said in two seconds what took me about three minutes to say.
Eric Huffman: Well, I'm convicted because I've used that argument against the pre-trib rapture before, and I am repenting of it because it's clearly uncharitable at best. I mean, it's just false. There was, as you said, plenty of witnesses to it or believers in it early on. We've got to get ready to close this. You've got a lot of other things to get to, John. I just want to thank you again for being here, but we've got to talk real quick about the bride.
Christ loves His bride. The whole consummation of the story, so to speak, is Him coming to claim His bride and be with His bride. But the role of the bride, as you mentioned earlier, is to be prepared. So my question is, how can the bride of Christ, we, the church, be preparing ourselves until that day comes, until we hear His voice? How can we prepare ourselves? What does He want to see when He comes to us? What kind of bride is He hoping for?
John Bevere: You just asked me a question that really covers about 60 percent of the book, so I've got to be really careful with this one. Luke 12, Jesus said, "Stay dressed for service." I've got to address that in a second. Keep your lamps burning. Remember, there were five wise, five foolish. They weren't harlots, they weren't prostitutes, they were virgins, they had lamps, they were looking for the return of the bridegroom. Five were wise, five were foolish. I just lay in bed awake in the middle of the night thinking, "Jesus, why didn't you say nine were wise and one was foolish?" All right, and then He said, "You be like men who are eagerly waiting for their master to return."
So three things. Number one is keep our garments clean. The Bible says the marriage of the Lamb has come and the bride has made herself ready. What's the next statement? To her it was granted to be arrayed in clean and bright for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. So we're actually constructing our wedding dress by our obedient actions we do to Jesus. It's really quite amazing.
Keep your lamps burning means what? A foolish virgin is described in Ephesians as one who says, "Oh, it's okay to commit an immorality, it's okay to live in sin because I'm covered by grace." So clear. And believe me, I make it clear in the book. And then of course, you be like men who eagerly wait; our eager anticipation, our watching for Him gives us the power to purify ourself as He is pure.
So keeping our garments clean, which is basically pursuing godly living. Number two is to keep our lamps burning, which again is also another aspect of godly living. And number three is watching or being eagerly waiting. That comes as we spend time in prayer and looking for Him and thinking about His return, keeping our minds set on the things above, not on the things of the earth. That's a real abbreviated... that's even shorter than a CliffNote version.
Eric Huffman: That was masterful. Actually, it's harder to distill something down than it is to make it a long answer. And I think you summed it up well, John. Thank you for that. Last question. To somebody who's really going through it right now, people that are watching or listening, and they're just in the thick of that lowercase tribulation we talked about earlier, and they're hurting, what would you say to them about the importance of understanding the end times, the hope that we have in the second coming of Christ and the things to come, eschatology, that can encourage them even in the midst of the struggle and storm they're in?
John Bevere: If you look at the book of Thessalonians, when Paul talks about the second coming, or actually the catching away of the church, he uses this very interesting phrase: the hope of the helmet of salvation. When you keep hope in front of your eyes, and hope can only be based off of biblical promises, hope is a helmet that protects you from getting mortally wounded in the head. And I would say to that person, I would say, fight to maintain your joy.
And the only way a person has joy, because hope deferred makes the heart sick, the only way to maintain that joy is to put on that helmet of the hope of salvation, and the specific salvation he's talking about is the salvation of our body, when we're going to get a resurrected, eternal body just like Jesus's. When you keep that hope set before you, it makes these things that you're really, really heavily going through... and believe me, I totally empathize, because I know. I don't even have to ask you, Eric, we've gone through seasons in our life where you just feel like there is no hope, that's when you have to fight to keep hope. Who against hope believed in hope? Abraham believed in hope, even when there was no hope. And that's what I would say is don't lose your hope. That's one of the three that endures.
Eric Huffman: Yeah. But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate and the hope of salvation as a helmet. Amen. That's 1 Thessalonians 5:8, for those of y'all that want to look that up and let that encourage you.
I just think sometimes when we're really going through the hard times, the end times are the last thing we want to think about. But in fact, properly understood the end times. And the hope we have in the end times, according to Scripture, can give us strength and encourage us through the tough times we go through here and now.
I want to thank you again, John, for joining us. I encourage everybody to check out your work. Your YouTube channel is incredible. Your book is incredible. We'll put all those links in the description of this episode. John Bevere, thank you for joining us on Maybe God.
John Bevere: Thanks, Eric. It was such a pleasure and an honor.