The Antichrist, The Rapture, and 2nd Coming of Jesus Explained
Inside This Episode
Are we living in the last days? What did Jesus actually warn us about? How should believers prepare? In this episode, Pastor Gary Hamrick joins Eric to break down Jesus’ most important warnings about the End Times — signs, events, and warnings many overlook or misunderstand. Pastor Gary shares why he believes these conversations are more urgent than ever, and why followers of Jesus can face the future with both clarity and hope.
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Transcript
Eric Huffman: Could the end times be closer than we think?
Gary Hamrick: No man knows the day nor the hour. And Jesus said not even the Son, referring to Himself. Now that said, there are a lot of indicators both in natural ways and in cultural ways that we are obviously getting closer and closer to the return of Christ.
Eric Huffman: Are we really ready for what Jesus warned us is coming next?
Gary Hamrick: People who believe in Jesus Christ will be physically snatched up from the earth and there will be a period of great tribulation upon the earth. It's cataclysmic events that come upon the earth, both natural disasters and wars, and the antichrist comes onto the world scene, deceives people to believing that he is the Messiah.
Eric Huffman: What else do we know about the antichrist? Is it going to be a human? Could it be AI?
Gary Hamrick: I got to be honest with you.
Eric Huffman: Today, Pastor Gary Hamrick explains Jesus's end times warnings and why we can't afford to ignore them.
Gary Hamrick: He is warning us in advance. I want people to know that this is God's wake-up call and this is His rescue plan to save a world that doesn't believe.
Eric Huffman: Pastor Gary Hamrick, welcome to Maybe God.
Gary Hamrick: Thank you, Eric. It's good to be with you.
Eric Huffman: It's good to have you. I'm so excited to talk about your latest book, Standing on the Edge of Eternity. I've read it. It's awesome. I encourage everybody to pick it up. It's all about the end times and the book of Revelation, everybody's favorite book of the Bible, Revelation, which we'll get into in a minute.
You know, Christians disagree a lot about the end times. I won't say more than just about anything else, but it's up there. We disagree about the rapture. We disagree about the order of events in the future, and just a lot of things that we disagree about regarding things to come. And I think it can be a little off-footing sometimes to skeptics and people that are kicking the tires on Christianity to see Christians disagreeing about something, you know, because it's unsettling when something's unsettled. I think sometimes because of that, we just don't talk about it in our churches.
So why do you think it's important for Christians and pastors to have these conversations and do this teaching about something as controversial as the end times?
Gary Hamrick: That's a great question. You know, it's one of 66 books of the Bible, and it often gets overlooked because people are overwhelmed by the content. For those who attend church, they don't often want to study the book of Revelation because of just the volume of information. I mean, it's like drinking out of a fire hose. People are reluctant to get into Revelation because there's a lot of symbolism there. I think it's a very literal book. I think it's a futuristic book. But because of the symbolism, it's a bit daunting, and so some people don't want to delve into it.
And then, yeah, for those who aren't church, for the skeptic, because there is some differences among Christians about interpreting some of the symbolism, then it can be off-putting as a book in general. But what I try to tell people inside and outside the church is that, you know, it's okay for Christians to disagree or to debate on issues that are not eternal salvation issues.
There's a lot in the Bible that is not about salvation. The main thing is the main thing. And the main thing about the Bible is Jesus, salvation through faith in Jesus. The things around that we can discuss, we can debate, but we never want to water down the truth about Jesus Christ and who He is.
Eric Huffman: Amen. Hey, everyone. I'm so glad you're here today for this conversation about the end times. I just wanted to pop in real quick and welcome all of you who are new to Maybe God. Maybe God is a place where you can tackle your biggest questions about God and the meaning of life and so much more. No matter where you are on the spectrum of faith and doubt, you don't have to search for those answers alone. Maybe God is here for you.
It might surprise you to know that over 90% of our viewers still haven't subscribed to the Maybe God channel yet. If you haven't subscribed, I hope that you will today. Thank you all so much for your love and your support. Now let's get back to Pastor Gary Hamrick.
There's been a lot that's been written and said about the topic of the end times. I mean, I grew up in the era of Left Behind and all that. So there's been a ton written and spoken about it. What did you want to say that hadn't already been said? Why did you feel the duty to write this book?
Gary Hamrick: To be honest with you, when the publishers came to me about writing a book on Revelation, I thought the very same thing. Like, "What more could I say about the book of Revelation?" But the thing that motivated me, Eric, was I wanted to try to do my best to break down the book chapter by chapter. In the book I wrote, each chapter corresponds to the same chapter in the book of Revelation. And I wanted to break it down in a way that was small bites for people to be able to go through the whole book chapter by chapter, look at it in the context in which it was written. I just had a desire to not sensationalize things, not to be fear-mongering about end times, but actually quite the opposite.
I wanted people to be able to be encouraged about what is to come, is it messy? Yeah. Is there a lot of doom and gloom in Revelation? Of course. But the reason why God allows all of this is because it's His final wake-up call to a God-forsaken, Christ-rejecting world. It's really God's love for us, because it's His final opportunity for people to get on board with Jesus. So, of course, sometimes—I mean, this is probably true perhaps for you, I know it was for me—God has to hit us upside the head with a two-by-four in order to get our attention.
So sometimes people need that awakening. And so I wanted the book of Revelation to be just spelled out chapter by chapter so people could try to understand it, learn what it means, and realize that at the end of it, it's God's love letter to a world that has been rejecting Him and forsaking Him, because He wants us to turn to Him.
Eric Huffman: Yeah, that's right. The reason I really wanted to have you on to talk about this book is because I read it and I was blown away, because it's so measured, and it's so just balanced in its approach. And I think that's needed because so much of what's being written and said about the end times is alarmist, hyperbolic, sensational, and like you said, fear-mongering. Even in recent days, we've seen... I don't know if you saw the frenzy on TikTok a few months ago when the South African pastor said he had a dream that Jesus would return on a certain day in September of 2025.
[Clip plays] I'm looking at him as he's talking, He says to me, on the 23rd, I will come to take my church.
Eric Huffman: And TikTok went up in a frenzy. Some people were making fun of it. Some people were like, "Oh boy, it's coming."
[Clip plays] City day is rapture day. Rapture trip tip number five. When you finally start moving up into the air, I recommend that you don't hold on to anything.
Eric Huffman: And that sort of thing seems to happen on repeat, you know, in our culture over time. What do you make of those sorts of predictions and, you know, those bold assertions that some preachers will make sometimes?
Gary Hamrick: Well, you know, it's unfortunate, because Jesus even said, "No man knows the day nor the hour." And Jesus said, "Not even the Son," referring to Himself. In other words, that was one thing that God the Father had even kept from the moment in Jesus' knowledge while He was here on earth. And so when people start to put dates on it, to be honest, I just think they're false prophets.
Now, that said, I think we can look at the signs of the times. I think we can look at the indicators. I live in the Northern Virginia area, we have all four seasons. When I see the trees starting to bud and flowers starting to bud, I know spring is near, right? I mean, there are certain indicators that we can recognize the times in which we live.
The Bible actually gives us a lot of indicators, futuristic indicators, social indicators, cultural indicators, economic indicators. I mean, it's pretty amazing, all of the Bible... and not just the book of Revelation, like there's a lot of prophetic stuff throughout the Bible. I think we need to be aware and wise about the signs of the times without putting dates on it, without predicting particular dates, because then we just end up looking foolish and then the rest of the world laughs at us. So I think it's a danger to do that kind of thing.
Eric Huffman: I agree. And I appreciate that. I think first I was thinking about with your four seasons, I'm in Houston, Texas, and we don't have that.
Gary Hamrick: You don't. No, you don't. We have flood season.
Eric Huffman: We have two seasons. Hell hot season and flood season. Mosquito season. That's another one, but it's all year. So what do you see now with some of the signs of the times? In our modern culture, are you seeing some things that perk you up?
Gary Hamrick: Yeah. For one, I see an alliance between Russia and Iran. The Bible calls Iran by its former name, Persia. It was called Persia until 1935. We see that. The Bible says that that will happen towards the end of the age. We see in Matthew chapter 24, Jesus gives a whole list of different things. He talks about how false Christs will appear, false prophets. Well, I think people who start to put dates on when Jesus will come again, there's a false prophet.
He talks about how the love of most will grow cold. He talks about how there will be famine and disease. I mean, we just got through a few years ago, COVID-19. We're seeing famine. I read a number, there's 812 million people, I think, who are food deprived around the world. I mean, it won't take much to trigger a worldwide famine. There are a lot of earthquakes. Jesus predicted about tsunamis, earthquakes. So there are a lot of indicators, both in natural ways and in cultural ways, that we are obviously getting closer and closer to the return of Christ.
And that's why I think it's important. And part of the reason I wrote the book was so that we would be ready. It's His imminent return. He's coming again.
Eric Huffman: You don't want the church to be unprepared or uninformed. That's right.
Gary Hamrick: Yeah.
Eric Huffman: Just taking a step back, could you take us through your best understanding of the order of things that's going to happen in the end times? You mentioned the second coming, but what should we be expecting? 30,000-foot general view.
Gary Hamrick: This is where some will disagree, but I'll lay it out the way that I best see scripture presents it. And by the way, it's okay. I've got brothers and sisters who may disagree with some of these finer points, but the way that I see the big picture from 30,000 feet, right now we're living in what's called the church age. Ever since Jesus ascended back into heaven, He handed the baton of ministry to the church. And so believers make up the church. And we're living during this time right now called the church age. But there will come a time, and it could happen at any moment, when the Lord Jesus will return in the clouds. The word we use for it is the rapture of the church.
Now "rapture" is a big word. It's not found in the Bible. But in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, it talks about it. What it mentions is there will be a time of a great snatching up or a great seizing up of people from the earth. That word to be "snatched up" in the original New Testament Greek is the word "harpazo". When the Bible was translated into Latin, that word for snatch up was raptus. And that's where we get our English word rapture.
So there's this great moment to come when people who believe in Jesus Christ will be physically snatched up from the earth. They will be taken up bodily. And that's what we call the rapture. And we will be kept in heaven for a period of time because as soon as the church is raptured, as soon as believers are taken from the earth, there will be a period of great tribulation upon the earth. And it'll last, the Bible says, for seven years. And during that seven years, you will have various political and geopolitical kinds of fighting and vying for world power.
The Bible actually predicts that the world powers will be divided into 10 geographical regions and that among those 10 geographical regions, they will give power to one person that we know of as the Antichrist. The Antichrist comes onto the world scene, deceives people to believing that he is the Messiah. And then after that seven years of tribulation, and by tribulation, I mean, it's cataclysmic events that come upon the earth, both natural disasters and wars. And at the end of that seven years, it culminates in a war that most people, even who don't go to church, have heard of. It's the battle of Armageddon.
When the battle of Armageddon happens at the end of the seven years of tribulation, then the Bible says that Jesus comes back to the earth, brings the saints with Him, He defeats those armies that have been waging war against Israel and the God of Israel. So He ends the battle of Armageddon and then He establishes His kingdom here on earth for 1,000 years. And at the end of the 1,000 years, the Bible says there's a new heaven and there's a new earth.
So that's the 30,000-foot view. I know, again, it's like drinking out of a fire hose, but these are the things that the Lord says are going to come.
Eric Huffman: I think the takeaway, even if you disagree about the order of events and people will vehemently disagree about the rapture, we'll talk a little bit more about that in a minute, but the takeaway is that there is a plan. There's something yet to come, that God has something great in store that, you know, it's going to get worse before it gets better, but it won't get better. And we can trust in that.
And a lot of that plan is spilled out in the book of Revelation. You know, as we joked earlier, that it's not the easiest book to understand. For our skeptics in the audience, why is the book of Revelation, given that it's so, you know, confusing, why is it reliable? What do people need to know about the book of Revelation that makes it trustworthy?
Gary Hamrick: I think, honestly, Eric, what makes it reliable is that it's a part of a greater compilation of books. Again, I mentioned 66 books, but all of those 66 books were written over a period of about 1,500 years on three different continents, in three different languages by about 40 different authors. And what's so amazing is that all of it synchronizes. You can't find how one part of it contradicts another part of it.
That's so amazing to think over 1,500 years, 40 different authors, three different languages, three different continents. I mean, you couldn't get 40 writers for the New York Times in the room, in the same room, on the same day, and write about the same story, and it would come out looking the same. But yet the Bible is just uniquely compiled that way because we believe that God inspired it through the pen of different men to write. And so because it synchronizes and there's really no contradiction, Revelation is one part of that. So it's just as reliable as the rest of it.
And I say to people, if you can get beyond Genesis 1:1, where in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, you know, if you can get beyond that, you can take the rest of the Bible. If you can't get beyond Genesis 1:1, you're going to have a hard time with the last book of the Bible, which is Revelation.
But it is reliable because we can see throughout Scripture, Jesus fulfilled more than 300 prophecies when He first came. The odds of that happening. That's not accidental. If He fulfilled all 300 plus prophecies when He first came, and the Bible gives us about 1,000 prophecies about a second coming, the consistency is if He fulfilled all those 300 the first time, He'll fulfill the 1,000 or so about a second coming, and the book of Revelation helps us to be prepared for that.
Eric Huffman: Well, that's so good. I love the idea that if you can get over or get past Genesis 1. Because that's the biggest miracle, that He made it all from nothing.
Gary Hamrick: Exactly.
Eric Huffman: Everything we see, and if He did it once, He can certainly recreate it however He sees fit, and we can trust Him. What about the author of Revelation and, you know, why he's trustworthy and maybe why what he wrote in Revelation is different from, you know, his gospel or the other letters that he wrote?
Gary Hamrick: The writer of Revelation is John, John the Apostle, and you alluded to he also wrote the gospel of John, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. That same John. He also wrote 1st, 2nd, and 3rd John. He wrote the book around 95 AD. And when I say wrote the book, you know, I'm coming from a position, obviously, where he was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write it. And he even talks in chapter 1 about how this is the revelation of Jesus Christ. Sometimes people misstate the book of Revelation. They say it's the revelation of John. No, it's the revelation of Jesus, and Jesus gave this revelation to John.
In fact, the word "revelation" in Greek is apocalypsis, where we get our English word apocalypse. So John, there he is, about 95 AD, he's almost that old, he's in his early 90s, the early church fathers believed, and he's on the island of Patmos in the Aegean Sea, which I just visited, by the way, for the very first time this past April.
Eric Huffman: Really?
Gary Hamrick: Yeah. And it was beautiful to be there on the island of Patmos and to kind of get a sense. And by the way, it's a beautiful island among the Greek islands. I mean, if he was there because he was banished for his faith by the emperor Domitian, the Roman emperor Domitian, but I said to myself, if you got to be banished somewhere, go to one of the Greek islands. Praise the Lord for that.
Eric Huffman: It could have been worse.
Gary Hamrick: It could have been a lot worse. And he's there, and the Lord gives him these series of visions, and he writes these revelations from Jesus. And because he's writing in the first century, that's why there's a lot of terminology and symbolism, because you have to remember, he's in the first century. The Lord is showing him things centuries down the road, you know, even from our time hasn't happened, and so he's trying to describe things in first-century terms.
You know, I say to people, just think about if George Washington were to come across a cell phone, how would he describe that in terms of the 1700s to talk about, you know, seeing little people on a little screen that he holds in his hand. That's John. And so when he writes and he's got all these symbolic things happening. He's not trying to be symbolic for the sake of being symbolic. He's trying to describe things into the future that he really doesn't have words in the first century to describe. That's why it looks like it's this far out thing. He's trying to describe things that are hard to understand in the first century.
Eric Huffman: I guess a skeptic might say, well, if it's inspired by the Holy Spirit, why couldn't it have been clearer? If it's something God wants us to know, why not just put it in bullet points, like this will happen, then this, then this? What's your response to that criticism that, you know, if it's from God, it could have just been spelled out more clearly?
Gary Hamrick: Because again, he's writing using first century language to describe things in the future. I mean, we're dealing with AI right now, so just think about this. Even like 25 years ago, how would people describe AI? You can't bullet point the things that you can't really experience, and you're writing, you know, in a futuristic way. So it's just really the inability to communicate with language that we would understand in the day, because of the time in which he wrote. But God's not being vague. He's using John to describe things that are just too phenomenal to put into words. So he's writing symbolically about those things.
But let me just emphasize, even though he's writing using some words that sound symbolic, he's writing about literal things. He just is having a difficult time describing them. You know, he talks about things that look like scorpions, and he talks about things that had like men's hair, and he's just describing different things with language that he's limited with in the first century.
Eric Huffman: And for whatever reason, God is committed to working through human beings to communicate His message, as opposed to magically writing it on a tablet or something, and, you know, it's a hidden knowledge kind of thing. He uses ordinary people to do this, and so there's limitations there in terms of what John could understand in the first century.
I went to a very liberal seminary when I was in school, and I was told that Revelation was basically one piece of a greater genre of apocalyptic literature at the end of the first century. That there were other very similar things written, and John was just mimicking that from the world, and he was describing real-time events. So it wasn't in any way about the future. It was about, you know, what was really going on in the first century in the Roman Empire and all of that. What's your take on that criticism of, you know, more literal interpretation of futuristic events?
Gary Hamrick: So what you just described is called the Preterist view. Basically, people believed that John was writing about events in the first century, and so then when he speaks about the beast coming out of the sea that we otherwise call the Antichrist, people said, "Well, that was Nero. That was Emperor Nero, first century. He's describing the persecution of Christians." And no doubt. I mean, we know historically Christians were persecuted in the first century. In fact, Nero was so barbaric that history records he would take Christians, dip them alive in tar, and then light them on fire as lamps in his garden.
So he was a brutal guy, but, you know, the Bible speaks of the Antichrist, small a, the spirit of antichrist. You know, Hitler was an antichrist. Of course, Nero was an antichrist. You can look at Mao, that spirit of antichrist we're talking about, small a. There have been a lot of people. Idi Amin. There have been a lot of butchers in the world who have done horrible things, but the book of Revelation shouldn't be constrained to just the first century because of the way the language is written it's pointing to things that are futuristic.
I mean, even Jesus talked about the abomination that causes desolation, and He said it'll be a time unlike any other time. Well, we've had repeated kinds of times in history where there have been terrible things that have occurred, but Jesus was saying that there's going to be a time in the future, unlike any other time in the past. So it's incomparable to all these other different events.
As brutal as Nero was, as terrible as Hitler was, there's coming onto the world scene and antichrist is going to be even worse than they were.
Eric Huffman: Wow. That's shocking but I think it's right. In the book of Revelation, there's all kinds of scary things. There's beasts, there's, you know, destruction, lake of fire, eternal damnation, scary angels. Do you read all of that literally? Do you read it figuratively? How do you interpret that?
Gary Hamrick: For the most part, very literal. There are a few things that, you know... like example, Satan is referred to as the dragon. He's not literally a dragon, but it is a word to describe him. I think most of the book of Revelation is very literal. It should be read that way, should be interpreted that way.
One of the disadvantages we have living in the Western world, as we do, is that the book of Revelation is written from an Eastern mindset. So we have to put ourselves in that kind of Eastern mindset, which is that in America, in the Western world in general, we like things very chronological. Like, you know, you're a pastor. The way we even preach typically is here's point one, two, and three, and here's some illustrations to go with it. And people think chronologically. But in the Eastern mindset, they think circularly.
So sometimes when you read Revelation, you have to remember that it's as if John is standing in a circular room and there's all these LED screens around him and all these different things, visions, and scenes that he's seeing, and he's describing all of this that is happening. So it's pretty wild. But at the same time, I think we need to read it in a very literal sense. We need to understand it that way. Otherwise, it just becomes a very vague book up to anybody's interpretation. And I think that's where it gets dangerous.
Eric Huffman: What role does numerology or the numbers play in Revelation? It's something you hear a lot of people talk about, whether it's, you know, the number 7 or 12 or 666. Why do numbers play such a key role in Revelation?
Gary Hamrick: There's some truth to numerology really in the whole Bible. I mean, typically seven is a number for perfection or completion. Forty is a number for judgment. I think 666 actually does speak about something because six was the number for man. Man was created on the sixth day. And I think the mark of the beast, 666, is just an indication that this is, in triplicate, the worst form of humanity, because the Antichrist is a real person who will emerge. It talks about in...
Okay, so now here's an example of something that is figurative. In Revelation 13, it talks about the beast rising from the sea. It doesn't mean a literal sea. It means the sea of humanity. And he emerges from the sea of humanity, and he is a human being who is this charismatic political world leader who will become this world dictator of one world government at some point, the Bible says.
And I think the 666, for example, is an indication this is one human being who will be empowered by Satan himself, and he will be the worst representation of humanity in that sense, 666. My caution always is, you know, I want to be careful that we don't read everything into every nuance or we're going to be making up stuff.
You look in the book of Daniel, and you see the statue that Daniel saw in the days of Nebuchadnezzar, and I think we have the tendency to make, well, what does the toe of the statue mean? It's like, yeah, I don't know we should get too focused on the toe of the statue. Let's look at the overall purpose and mission of that vision. And I think Revelation we got to look at in a broad way, too.
Eric Huffman: All right, let's get into some of this, then. So it's specific things about the end times. We just talked about the Antichrist a little bit. I want to go a little deeper into that one. First of all, I can't stop thinking about the fact that 666 is... six is the number of man, and the fact that there's a triplicate, is that a satanic imitation of the trinity?
Gary Hamrick: Yeah, you do see an unholy trinity. Obviously, in the Bible, you have God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. You have a holy trinity, but you do see in Revelation an unholy trinity. You have Satan as the dragon, you have the beast, the Antichrist, and you have the false prophet. So you have a triplicate in an unholy sense. And I think 666 can refer to that, and that unholy trinity, if you will.
Eric Huffman: That fits the pattern we see with the devil throughout the scriptures.
Gary Hamrick: He always counterfeits. He always counterfeits everything that God has designed.
Eric Huffman: What else do we know about the Antichrist? We have an idea who it's going to be. Is it definitely going to be a man? Could it be a woman? Is it going to be a human? Could it be AI? What do we know?
Gary Hamrick: Great question. So it does speak of the Antichrist as a he, so I think it's going to be a man. We know from Daniel 11 some things. What's interesting, Eric, is that the word Antichrist actually isn't in the book of Revelation. It just refers to the beast, and it use of the word beast 28 times. The word Antichrist is found most in 1 and 2 John, John's other little epistles. But the beast that rises out of the sea is the Antichrist.
And so we also can compare Scripture with Scripture. Daniel 11 talks about the Antichrist. Basically he is this geopolitical leader that comes onto the world scene, very popular, very charismatic. I have to be honest with you. I've wondered, could the Antichrist be on the world scene right now, it just hasn't risen to power? And it's possible.
So some people are always asking me, "Well, is this person the Antichrist? Is that person the Antichrist?" I'm like, "I don't think we should be guessing." But every time I see weird stuff happen in politically, I'm like, "Oh man, could that guy be it?" So I think it's dangerous to obviously predict things. But a political leader who will be very charismatic and winsome, and the Bible says that the powers of the nation, of the world, will give their powers over to the Antichrist.
I got to be honest with you, until COVID happened, and we saw how the United States was potentially going to be sucked up into this World Health Organization control of the world, because that was the plan at the time. Like, We need to have the World Health Organization really have control of the planet for the sake of this virus. And we were beginning to relinquish sovereignty and rights to the World Health Organization. Until that happened, I wondered, how could it be possible that nations would turn their power over to a 10-nation conglomeration, which is what the Bible talks about, how the world will be divided into 10 regions? How will that happen? And then COVID happened, I thought, "I got a glimpse." I thought, "I wonder if down the road, there could be some global event that happens that then people feel like it's necessary to point this one person over the globe in order to really run things." So I don't think it's far-fetched anymore.
Eric Huffman: Well, we learned in COVID, regardless of... I know people disagree about this, every time I talk about COVID or the vaccines, people freak out and leave my church and all this stuff. But what we learned for sure is that fear is the most powerful of drugs and people will go insane in fear. I think about COVID as a test run of sorts for some, you know, this nefarious purpose you're talking about, but imagine COVID if children were taken out by it and how freaked out everyone would be and how desperately we would be searching for answers and guidance and leadership. It's not that hard post-COVID to see what you're talking about coming into view. Again, not trying to be alarmist or anything, but some of these signposts are there.
What about AI as it relates to what the Bible predicts will happen? Does AI have any role in your thinking about this?
Gary Hamrick: I do. I think so, because the Bible talks about how the antichrist will receive a mortal wound. There's going to be this assassination on the antichrist. And then it talks about how the false prophet will bring him back to life. It also talks about how the antichrist will orchestrate the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem.
Now, remember the temple in Jerusalem hasn't been there since 70 AD when the Romans destroyed it. The Jews have always wanted it to be rebuilt. Why hasn't it been rebuilt yet? Well, the answer to that is in 1967, the defense minister, Moshe Dayan, after the Six-Day War, relinquished Israeli control of the temple mount. So now the Muslims control, and they don't want the Jewish temple to be rebuilt.
But one of the things the antichrist is going to do when he comes on the world scene, he's going to unite different religions, he's going to unite different nations. That temple will be rebuilt on the temple mount. It'll be rebuilt under the guise of a false messiah, the antichrist. It talks about how an image of the beast was set up in the antichrist. It says the false prophet gave life to the image. And it's not bios, bios life, like biology. It's a different word for life. I think that AI may very well have a role in giving life to this image in the temple of the antichrist. It is fascinating to think about how AI may play a role in the future, but I think it definitely will.
Eric Huffman: Fascinating is one word for it, Gary. I think it is dangerous.
Gary Hamrick: Yeah. I think it is a dangerous thing. but I mean, it's like everything. There's some good parts. I mean, I'm old enough to remember when the internet first came out and people were like, "Oh, this is scary." Well, yeah, there is a lot of scary stuff on the internet. It can also be used to advance the gospel too.
Eric Huffman: Sure. We're doing it right now.
Gary Hamrick: That's exactly right.
Eric Huffman: That's right. But boy, it is a little freaky what's going on with AI and how quickly it's ramping up. AWe have no reason to be anxious, especially those of us in Christ have no reason to be scared of any of this. It's just about information and knowledge being power in that way.
All right. I've been avoiding this, but I got to talk to you about the rapture.
Gary Hamrick: All right.
Eric Huffman: So here's the deal. I am not convinced about the rapture, Gary. I lean rapture. All right. I lean rapture. So I'm 60-40. I will say I'm 100% rapture. I'm 60, 40 pre-trib rapture, pre-tribulation. My wife and I probably argue about this more than anything else in our lives, because she is 100% pre-trib rapture.
Gary Hamrick: Well, listen to your wife.
Eric Huffman: I asked her what she wanted me to ask you, and she just wants me to let you convince me and talk me into the rapture pre-trib.
Gary Hamrick: Okay.
Eric Huffman: But let's talk about it. What specifically does the Bible say about the rapture? Who's going? What's it going to look like? And what's going to happen to those left behind?
Gary Hamrick: Well, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 I referenced earlier, talks about how there will be the trumpet call of God that says that the dead in Christ will rise first. And after them, we who are alive and remain Christians on the earth will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall be with the Lord forever.
So there is this moment and people can debate at what point does the rapture happen. But there's this moment where Christians will be sneezed and snatched bodily from the earth. I know that sounds sci-fi-ish, but it just is the way the Bible presents it. There is a generation that will not experience death. In fact, Paul alludes to that in 1 Corinthians 15: 51. He says, "Lo, I tell you a mystery, we shall not all sleep," and he was referring to death, "but we shall all be changed in the twinkling of an eye," meaning in a nanosecond, he said," at the last trumpet."
So there is this trumpet that is sounded. Now, some people have asked me, will everybody be able to hear that trumpet that the Lord sounds or will only Christians? And my answer is, I don't really care. It's when the trumpet sounds, I'm out of here.
Let me tell you the reason why I believe that the rapture happens before all of the tribulation that comes upon the earth. I think one of the best evidences is when you look at the book of Revelation, in Revelation chapter 4, John talks about how he was caught up. And it's that same word harpazo. So from Revelation chapter four on, it's as if John is writing like from the mezzanine of heaven and he sees events that transpire upon the earth.
So you have the word "church" mentioned 19 times in the first three chapters. And then as soon as John has caught up, no mention of the church again until Revelation chapter 22, after the Lord returns. I think that's evidence that there's no church during this tribulation period, because we've been taken up, we've been raptured and we've taken safely up into heaven.
Here's another reason. I'll give you another verse, 1 Thessalonians 5:9, it says, "God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." So the wrath of God that is going to be poured out upon the earth, I don't think that Christians go through. He's not appointed us to suffer wrath.
I'll give you one more. You look into Luke chapter 17, Jesus talks about how it'll be similar when the son of man comes as it was in the days of Noah and in the days of Lot. And when you look at the way that God rescued Noah and Lot from the judgment of their day, I think that's also symbolic of how God rescues the church from the judgment that's coming upon the earth.
Eric Huffman: It's pretty good. It's pretty good points there, Gary.
Gary Hamrick: In five minutes, I don't expect to convert you to a pre-trib view, but that's my take on it.
Eric Huffman: I appreciate your grace earlier in saying that you got brothers and sisters in Christ that don't line up on this. And it's not a salvation issue. Although my wife will sometimes talk like it is. I'm like, "It's not a salvation issue, right?" And she goes, "I guess we'll figure out at the rapture."
Gary Hamrick: Yeah, true. And I tell people too, like, you know, I'm going to be out of here before the tribulation. If you're still around, you can have my stuff. If you don't believe that we're out of here, take my stuff. I'm going to leave my house and my cars to you."
Eric Huffman: I think the bigger point is that if you're a Christian and you're following Jesus and you don't believe or don't know what to believe about a pre-trib rapture, you'll still be raptured.
Gary Hamrick: Exactly.
Eric Huffman: You won't be left behind for not believing or knowing about the rapture, but it's something we need to be clear about, cognizant of. What about children, Gary? What about kids in the rapture? Anything in the Bible about that?
Gary Hamrick: Well, I think in general, when you look in scripture about children, God has mercy on children. I think about when David, after his sin with Bathsheba, they had a baby, was born, didn't live very long. And after David wept over the death of his child, David said to his attendants, he said, "My child cannot return to me, but I will go to be with him." And he was speaking about when he goes to heaven, he's going to see and be reunited with that child.
It's also interesting too when you look at how the Hebrew slaves came out of slavery in Egypt onto the promised land, that God made a promise, not to that generation because they were disobedient, but he made a promise to Joshua and Caleb, the only two who were faithful to believe God for the future. And God said, "And to your children, I will bring into the promised land." So God has special grace and favor for children before they reach an age where they can make a decision for Jesus. So I think during the rapture, I think children go.
Which when you think about it, Eric, I mean, you're going to have some unbelieving parents and out of mercy, God's going to be snatching their children to take them safely to heaven. And what a chaotic world it's going to be when all of a sudden your children are missing. But I think they go in the rapture too.
Eric Huffman: And I guess people will still be able to have children, which raises a whole question, but-
Gary Hamrick: Yeah, they will.
Eric Huffman: But in terms of the people that are left behind after the rapture, during the tribulation, will there be opportunity to repent and become believers, faithful Christians?
Gary Hamrick: Yes, there will be opportunity for people to believe. In fact, we know because unfortunately, when people become believers and they don't accept the mark of the beast, they will be martyred for their faith. And the Bible talks about those who were martyred during the tribulation period. So, answer is a good answer and a bad answer. Yes, people can still get saved. The bad part is you will probably be martyred and persecuted for trusting in Jesus during the tribulation.
Some will survive. That's why some of these preppers I think they're getting ready for trying to survive the tribulation. I just want to go. When the trumpet sounds, I just want to be out of here. But yeah, you can get saved during the tribulation. It's just going to be a much more chaotic time and difficult time.
Eric Huffman: Don't put off that decision until the last minute.
Gary Hamrick: That's exactly right.
Eric Huffman: I'll tell you. I think my hesitation about the rapture pre-trib is not so much about what I personally believe, because like I said, I'm 60, 40, but it's about the fact that there's not enough clarity in the Bible to a hundred percent convince me that the pre-trib rapture is real, that I just don't want to stand up and teach it as though it's real, because I'd rather my people be surprised by the rapture than the lack of it. I don't want to be there in the tribulation without a pre-trib rapture and my whole congregation is looking at me going, "What the heck, man? You told us we'd be out of here, and here we are."
Gary Hamrick: I don't know if you know who Ed Hindson was. He went to be with the Lord a few years ago. But Ed Hindson used to be a dean of religion at Liberty University. I had Ed at my church before he went home to be with the Lord, and he was very pre-trib. And he had written like 40 books on end times. And I asked Dr. Hindson, I said, you know, "I'm pre-trib, I know you're pre-trib. Why are you pre-trib?" And he said to me in his raspy voice, he said, "Does it make any sense that Jesus would beat up the bride and then take her to the wedding banquet of the Lamb?" He goes, "Does it make sense to beat her up? Even the mid-trib view, you're going to get beat up a little bit. And the post-trib view, you're going to get beat up a lot. Oh, and then come to the marriage supper of the Lamb." He says, "It doesn't even make any sense that the bride of Christ would get beaten up and then invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb. So take it for what it's worth."
Eric Huffman: It's a lot to think about. The bigger question, I guess, is how much of this is front of house stuff for churches versus back of house? Like how much of this stuff do we bring, you know, to our worship services where we got a bunch of guests and unbelievers versus backroom teaching for, you know, the edification of the believers and things like that. I hear you wanting to kind of bring it out to the front and I've kind of kept it in the back. Tell me that might be wrong.
Gary Hamrick: I've been in ministry now for 38 years, been pastor in Cornerstone now for 34 of those 38 years. Eric, I've just seen too many people come to faith in Jesus when I'm teaching through the Bible in the most obscure passages. And it's just amazed me.
I remember one time... my children are older now, married, and they all have kids. But when one of my sons was playing Little League baseball, there was another family on the baseball team whose son was playing baseball with my son. And they said, "You know, we got to come to your church sometime. We want to visit your church." And they were completely nonbelievers, never been to church. And I said, "Great, love to have you."
Do you know, the first time they came, I was preaching in, of all books, the book of Leviticus. And if anybody listening to this knows about the book of Leviticus, a lot of ordinances, purification rites, diseases.
Eric Huffman: Bloog.
Gary Hamrick: A lot of blood. And do you know though, after that service, they came to faith in Jesus Christ. They've been regularly attending our church ever since like the last 20 years. And the Lord showed me I could be in Leviticus, I could be in revelation, I could be in the gospel of John. And as long as God's word goes out, he will use it to bring people's hearts to Jesus Christ. So that's why I bring it front of house because I've seen him use it time and again.
Eric Huffman: It's convicting. We need to get our own feelings and intuitions out of the way sometimes and let Him do His thing. Preach the whole Bible. Yeah.
Gary Hamrick: That's right.
Eric Huffman: I love it. I guess one thing that we are hesitant about with Revelation is just all the judgment. I think our sense as believers is that nonbelievers don't want to hear about God's judgment because it seems hateful or, you know, bigoted or spiteful. What do you think is good news about the judgment of God and the book of Revelation in particular?
Gary Hamrick: Well, I think the good news in general is He is warning us in advance. That's why He's given us the book of Revelation. The Bible says He wants none to perish, but all to come to repentance. So He's giving us the last book of the Bible. And that's why I think it's important for pastors to teach it because an unbelieving world needs to know that God is giving a final wake-up call because he loves us. Judgment is coming to the earth, but that we can escape that judgment because if we trust Christ as Lord and Savior, the Bible says we pass from death to life. There's therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.
And so I want people to know that this is God's wake-up call and this is His rescue plan to save a world that doesn't believe. So, yes, as much as there's a lot of messy stuff in the book of Revelation, there is judgment, there's the unsealing of scrolls, there's the sounding of trumpets, there's the pouring out of bowls. And with all of these events, people die on the earth. But again, it's God's final wake-up call to an unbelieving world.
So judgment must come, but grace precedes it. That's why Jesus dies on the cross because of His love for all of us. He wants us to be saved. He wants none to perish, but all to come to repentance.
Eric Huffman: Amen. You might think you want a God who's not judgmental, but you really don't want a God who doesn't judge because He's no God at all. And I think sometimes we're so comfortable in the West and America and judgment feels like bad news to us, but you go to places where people have less and there's no government you can count on, no police force you can trust, no justice system. The idea of a God who judges is hopeful.
Gary Hamrick: Yeah, that's right.
Eric Huffman: And I think sometimes we're living in a facade where we think we can trust the institutions around us and maybe that's crumbling and we're falling apart now, but maybe we just need a wake-up call that a God who judges is gracious and good. And without that, it wouldn't be.
Gary Hamrick: Yeah, that's right.
Eric Huffman: That's great. I would be remiss if I didn't bring Israel into this conversation because it just seems to be a part of the ongoing narrative around Christians in the end times. A lot of Christians think the nation of Israel and its modern state is going to play a big role in the end times and the church has a role to play in supporting Israel. What's your take on how Israel sort of figures into this end-time conversation?
Gary Hamrick: Well, I think that certainly the Israelis play into it because you read the book of Romans and you realize that there's a window right now where Gentiles have come in to be saved. But then Paul speaks about how all Israel will be saved. Now, he doesn't mean every single Jew will be a believer. In fact, there's very sobering words in the book of Zechariah that tells us the two-thirds of the Jews will perish in the tribulation period.
A third of them will come out and the Lord will return and they will ask Him, "Where did you receive the wounds?" Because He bears still the marks of the crucifixion. And Jesus said, "I received my wounds at the house of my friends." And then all Israel will be saved, those who have remained through the tribulation period.
So God has not done with the Jewish people. The church has not replaced Israel. And I think that's a big false theology right now, replacement theology, which basically teaches that all the promises God had for Israel and the Jewish people have been given now to the church, the church has replaced Israel. I think that's nonsense. I think that's heretical.
And I'm sorry to see that in the modern church today, and even, you know, not to name names, but even politically, even on the right these days, we're seeing some antisemitic discussions. We're seeing things that I've never thought would come out of certain people's mouths. And so I think we're seeing the rise of antisemitism because Satan has always tried to inspire people to hate the Jewish people, to hate Israel. That's why the battle of Armageddon happens in Israel, in the Valley of Jezreel, in the Valley of Megiddo there, along the Southern part of the Valley of Jezreel, because Israel is the epicenter of God's plan, redemption for mankind.
Jesus was born in Israel. He was a minister in Israel. He dies in Israel. He's coming again to Israel because the Bible says that He ascended from the Mount of Olives, and the Bible says He's coming back to the place from which He ascended. So He comes back to Israel, to the Mount of Olives. So He sets up His kingdom in Jerusalem for a thousand years. So we're not done with Israel, and God's not done with the Jewish people, that they still play a part in the end times.
God even talks about how 144,000 Jews will be saved during the end times, and they will be used as modern evangelists to go around proclaiming the good news of Jesus. So there's much written and much still to happen among the Jewish people and the nation of Israel. That's why we should continue to pray for the Jewish people and pray for the state of Israel.
Eric Huffman: Amen. Wow. You're preaching, Gary. I like it. No, it's good. Because there's a shift happening on the right, let's say.
Gary Hamrick: Yeah, there is.
Eric Huffman: And just a lot more, as you said, anti-Semitic or comments about Israel not mattering to God, when in fact it's clear that there's still a plan in place for God to show grace to those people.
Gary Hamrick: And by the way, of course, we can disagree with some things about the Israeli government. I disagree with some things about my own American government. I still love America. I still love Israel and the Jewish people. And so sometimes people conflate this idea of, well, if they don't like everything that the government of Israel is doing, then we got to dismiss all of Israel and they've been replaced by the church. It's just nonsense. And unfortunately, I think it's even demonically inspired.
Eric Huffman: Wow. Strong words.
Gary Hamrick: Strong words. But, you know, when you look at the history and the pattern of what Satan has always been about, he hates God's redemption, He hates God's plan of salvation for mankind. Salvation came through Jesus, a Jewish Messiah who died for all, who died for all people — anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord. But obviously Satan hates that. So he targets the Jewish people, he targets Israel.
And that's why you look at the nation of Israel, smaller than the state of New Jersey, and yet it's becomes this epicenter of strife and conflict. I think it's inspired ultimately by Satan.
Eric Huffman: Wow. A lot of the warnings in the, throughout the Bible, but specifically in Revelation are not just for unbelievers, but for Christians who get some things wrong. What are some examples of the things that God warns Christians about in the book of Revelation?
Gary Hamrick: Well, I think in general, a lot of times Christians think that their good works will save them and they totally don't understand grace. Salvation is not a works-oriented religion. It is a relationship-based faith in Jesus. And I think, you know, Christians, when they read through the book of Revelation, they might have this misunderstanding that they don't really need to be prepared as much as we should be prepared. I don't think the book of Revelation serves to be the kind of wake-up call that it needs to be for the church today.
Eric Huffman: I think about Laodicea in that regard, right?
Gary Hamrick: Yeah. I mean, it's the lukewarm church. I think we're living in a time of a lukewarm church. Unfortunately. I think, you know, I've just seen a lot of woke stuff infiltrate the church today. And when you look at God's warnings about the church of Laodicea, I think it speaks to an element of the church today.
There's seven letters to seven different churches in the first few chapters of Revelation. And the last two, Philadelphia and Laodicea, it's like a stream that diverges into two rivers, or I should say a river that diverges into two streams. The Philadelphia is the evangelical church and solidly biblical. And then you got the Laodicean church, woke and lukewarm and liberal theology. And I think you're seeing both streams today. Another reason why I think we're closer and closer to the return of Christ.
Eric Huffman: Well, it is the return of Christ that takes center stage in this whole conversation. We haven't talked enough about it. I know we're almost out of time, but what should we expect to see in His return? I think everybody has an image of Christ being, you know, the lamb of God, meek and mild and, you know, loving and good Samaritan and golden rule. What's going to be different about Him when He comes back?
Gary Hamrick: You know, there's a big difference. His first coming, He was meek and mild, riding on a donkey into Jerusalem, laid down His life for the sins of the world, wept over Jerusalem because they didn't believe in Him as Messiah. When we see Him come again in Revelation 19, He's riding on a white horse. He has a double-edged sword. I mean, He's coming now as a conquering king. And so very different from His first coming, meek and mild. When He comes again, He comes as a conquering king because He's going to defeat these nations that have come up against Israel and the God of Israel. And He's going to usher in real peace, not the kind of world peace that we pray for and long for, but we're going to get the ultimate peace when He returns as the Prince of peace. But He comes as a conquering king, and that's a big difference from His first coming.
Eric Huffman: What do you say to somebody that's like, well, that sounds like, you know, bifurcation, multiple personality kind of stuff? Like, is it a different guy or is it just... what is it?
Gary Hamrick: You know, the Lord was merciful, but then there comes a point when God is merciful and time runs out. And we need to understand this because sometimes when we think, well, God is love, you know, surely He wouldn't punish people, He wouldn't bring judgment. But you know, He is a loving God, but He's also a just God. And His love was expressed on the cross. His mercies expressed to me every single day. I'm thankful for His grace and mercy in my life every day.
But there is a day of accounting for every single one of us too. And in the big picture, there's a day of reckoning for the whole globe. And that's when the Lord returns. So it's not this duplicitous nature. It's just showing the love of God. And eventually, now we're going to see at some point the justice of God, and both reveal His perfect character.
Eric Huffman: Yeah. I think the mistake we make sometimes is the Old Testament God, angry old man in the sky; New Testament Jesus is all nice and sweet. He is one in the same. He does have mercy and... the gospel of John says He comes with grace and truth. So there's mercy and judgment and we should expect no less from the one true God.
Gary Hamrick: That's right.
Eric Huffman: Let's wrap up here. But what hope is there for people watching right now who aren't believers? What message do they need to hear about Revelation and the end times that might give them some inspiration or hope today?
Gary Hamrick: You know, the book of Revelation begins with a blessing and ends with a blessing. There's a lot of dark stuff in between, but we have to remember that the reason why the Lord has given us all of His word, including the book of Revelation is because He loves us and He wants us to be well-warned in advance that he's coming again.
And so everybody has to make a personal decision of faith to trust in Jesus that we might be ready because He wants everyone to be safe, none to perish. And so even though there are parts of the Bible that look threatening, discouraging, dark, it's really God's way of saying, "Look, it's time to wake up. I'm coming again. And I love you so much that I've given you these things, these warnings in advance" because He wants us all to come to faith in Him.
Eric Huffman: Boy, I struggle sometimes with ADD. My whole staff knows this. They're sitting over here. Everybody knows that if you want Pastor Eric to do anything, you got to give him a deadline. A deadline is a gracious thing, brother. That's true. We think of deadline as a scary word. A deadline? Like it even sounds scary, but there's grace in a deadline and knowing when something is coming due. And I think there's grace in God's deadline in the book of Revelation throughout the Bible, really, that God is gracious enough to let us know that the clock is ticking and the time is coming. And it's not a hateful thing. It's not meant to make you scared or anything like that. It's just a gracious thing from our God.
Gary Hamrick: Well said.
Eric Huffman: All right, brother. Any last words for the church today? Sometimes I think churches have been a part of can talk so much about the end times that we don't think about the present time. I think there's risk in overemphasizing the end times to the extent that we shouldn't even work to make the world a better place now. Do you have anything to say about that?
Gary Hamrick: I think it's a balance. I think you're right. I mean, we need to be occupying. Jesus said, occupy till I come. So we have to be faithful to live out our lives now and to live every day for Him and to take advantage of every day that He's given us. But we have to keep an eye on the prize. We have to keep looking up because we know that our redemption draws near. So it's both. One without the other it's not really understanding the whole gospel.
Eric Huffman: Amen. Pastor Gary, I just wanted to say before I let you go, this has been an honor to talk to you because you have been such a blessing to me as a pastor and to many, many others, I'm sure. And you probably don't hear it because we don't tell you, but you're so prolific and hardworking as a pastor. The fact that your sons are following you in ministry is a really good sign as a pastor. I know sometimes that doesn't always go that way, but it says something about your heart as a father and a pastor.
Gary Hamrick: Thank you.
Eric Huffman: I'm just so grateful for you and your, again, balanced approach to the gospel, but you are so passionate about bringing people into the knowledge of Christ. And I just pray God's blessings upon you. And I hope everybody watching will not only get the book, Standing on the Edge of Eternity, but we'll check out Pastor Gary's sermons through Cornerstone Church. Is it church or chapel?
Gary Hamrick: Chapel.
Eric Huffman: Cornerstone Chapel in Leesburg, Virginia.
Gary Hamrick: Yeah, Leesburg, Virginia. Thank you.
Eric Huffman: And your services on Sundays and Wednesdays are such a blessing and your Bible studies and all of that. It's great to get to talk to you today, brother.
Gary Hamrick: Appreciate your encouragement. Thank you. And listen to your wife. I think she's right about the preacher.
Eric Huffman: Well, we're going to cut that from the interview today. I'm just kidding. Thank you, Gary, brother. God bless you.
Gary Hamrick: Thanks, Eric. God bless you, too. Thank you.