^{June 26, 2026}

The Lie You've Been Sold About Aliens, Nephilim, and Supernatural Beings

Inside This Episode

**The views expressed by Timothy Alberino in this podcast have not been independently verified by the Maybe God Podcast. 

What if the biggest mistake Christians make about aliens is assuming they already know what they are? In this episode of Maybe God, we sit down with author, explorer, and researcher Tim Alberino to discuss one of the most controversial topics in the modern world: UFOs, aliens, angels, demons, the Nephilim, and the supernatural beings described in the Bible.

As government disclosures, whistleblower claims, and mainstream discussions about UFOs continue to accelerate, Tim argues that many Christians are unprepared for the conversation. Drawing from Scripture, the Book of Enoch, and years of research into ancient civilizations and modern UFO reports, he presents a provocative framework for understanding the phenomenon.

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Transcript

Timothy Alberino: You have this pervasive idea. You find it all over the place. "God would have told us about this. According to what? God has His secrets. The Bible tells us He has His secrets. We're confronted here with a mystery.

I don't think they're aliens. I think they're demons anyway. And I think that one of the devil's great tricks is to convince people he never existed.

Eric Huffman: I know you're a Christian, so what's your biblical interpretation behind these phenomena?

Timothy Alberino: We're standing in the midst of planet Earth with this profusion of biodiversity. We look up, and we say, "No, no, there's only a couple things up there that is presumptuous." Most of the UFO encounters that are close encounters are negative, really terrifying. It's not demonic possession, it's not an out-of-body experience, it's not like a psychedelic experience. You are physically removed from the point of abduction, brought onto an alien vessel. This is the reality.

Eric Huffman: What are UFOs? Not just the crafts, but the beings.

Timothy Alberino: Well, UFOs have at least two sources.

Eric Huffman: Okay, everybody, this conversation is going to be a wild one. It's a first for me personally. It's a first for us here on Maybe God. Our guest today is Timothy Alberino. Timothy is an author and explorer who has traveled the world researching ancient civilizations and UFO encounters in specific and explaining how they fit into the biblical narrative. Some have called him a modern-day Indiana Jones.

Timothy Alberino, welcome to Maybe God.

Timothy Alberino: Thanks for having me. It's my pleasure to be with you.

Eric Huffman: Yes, sir. Looking forward to this. UFOs and aliens are everywhere now. Almost all of a sudden, they're in mainstream media headlines. They're in social media platforms, everywhere. You can't get away from the stories. But you've been on this beat for many years now. Just talk to us about how you first really got interested and drawn into this field.

Timothy Alberino: Well, I would describe myself as a ufologist. I've been very interested in ufology for a long time. This topic became concretized in my mind on a particular evening back in February. I forget what year it was, probably about 12 to 15 years ago. I was with my brother-in-law and we had an encounter with a craft. Actually, we were in the town that I grew up in, Brook Park, Ohio. And it was nine o'clock at night, and we were in the parking lot of this strip mall, the Brookgate Shopping Complex, and we witnessed a craft descend over our vehicle. I was driving a Kia Sportage and my brother-in-law was in the passenger seat. And I had parked in the middle of this parking lot. There was almost nobody else there because everything was closing.

It was a very frigid February night. Very windy, very, very windy. So windy, in fact, that my car would shake in the gusts of wind. It would shake my car. That's how powerful the wind was. And this craft, which was originally hovering over one of the corner stores, it lifted up in the air, glided above my vehicle, and began to descend above and just in front of my vehicle so I could view the whole thing through the windshield. And it descended to about 40 feet above my vehicle.

We probably were observing this thing for one to two minutes, which is a long time just to stare at something. We were just gaping at this thing because it was apparent to us right away that what we were looking at was unconventional technology because it did not have any noticeable propulsion system, any conventional propulsion system. It didn't have propellers. It didn't have any kind of engines. There was no exhaust and there was no noise. It was completely silent, utterly unmoved by the atmosphere. Whereas my vehicle was shaking in the gusts of wind, this vehicle was completely static, stationary.

The fuselage was roughly the shape of a diamond, a diamond kind of shape to it, not precisely a diamond, but something like that. It had matte black or I couldn't tell it because it was nighttime. It was matte black or matte, like a greenish, dark gray, green body armor, angular body armor, reminiscent of the F-117 Nighthawk, but not exactly. Not exactly. That's the best analog I can think of in regard to conventional craft.

It had very strange triangular lights on it. I recall two, my brother-in-law recalls one. There was at least one bright triangle light on the front of this thing. And it had a series of lights around the bottom of the fuselage, green and blue. Obviously, it was very, very high-tech. I don't know if it was a drone or what, but it was the size of a large helicopter, like a Chinook troop carrier or a Black Hawk, something like that. That's the approximate size of this thing.

As I said, we were just absolutely flabbergasted, stunned, kind of in shock, actually staring at this thing. I remember... at the time, I didn't have a smartphone. I had a flip phone, but my brother-in-law had a smartphone. I remember saying, Tony, his name is Tony, "Tony, your phone, your phone, get your phone out, take a picture, take a video." And I should have said, I should have prefaced this story with Tony and I had always... the topic of UFOs and reverse engineering programs, what we now call the legacy program, oftentimes we would discuss these things, especially when we were working out in his basement. So we were very familiar with UFOlogy.

So when I said, Tony, your phone, he started scrambling for his phone, checking his pockets. He found his phone, he started to extract it from his pocket and he dropped it on the floor. And when he bent over to pick it up, the craft lifted up into the air, turned on its axis effortlessly and began to glide away.

Eric Huffman: Wow.

Timothy Alberino: And we jumped out of the car. And as soon as we jumped out of that car, we were just blasted with that frigid air. And I keep highlighting this wind because it was so windy this night. And this craft is just gliding completely unmoved by the atmosphere, just gliding over the horizon.

Eric Huffman: So it was clear to you at that point that it was not typically man-made aircraft.

Timothy Alberino: Obviously it was unconventional. We don't have any conventional craft that can do this. Now, do we have stuff that we've reverse-engineered, technologies that are unknown to the public? Yeah, we have that kind of stuff. Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman and Raytheon and the different aerospace contractors, I'm convinced today have this kind of technology.

I had the sense that this was man-made. You know, it was exotic. It was an exotic propulsion system. But I had the sense... I don't know who was piloting it. I don't know. But for whatever reason, I had the sense that it was man-made. I also had the strange sensation that this vehicle is waiting for me. Like whoever was piloting this craft knew we were going there and it was like waiting for us. And it's intentionally descended in front of my car so I can get a good, long look at it.

And as I said, this experience, this encounter really solidified the topic in my mind. It wasn't just a topic of interest anymore. Now it was a stone-cold reality. We have technology that is inexplicable, that is advanced, you know, far more advanced than anything that we've deployed in any theater of war, at least the technology that's been filmed and acknowledged. And I do believe that much of this technology has been derived from non-human sources. Again, referring to the legacy program, the crash retrieval program in which we retrieve the debris of UFOs and the biological being, the biological pilots associated with them, non-human.

Eric Huffman: I'd like to get more into that in a moment. So just to put a bow on this story, there was no one else around, no one else reported seeing this. And that gave you the impression that it was sort of, for you, like this craft wanted you guys to see it.

Timothy Alberino: Actually, we found reports of a UFO sighting in Brook Park, Ohio on that night. I wish I could remember the date. I just can't remember the date. It was February. It was cold. I don't remember the year. I was living in Cleveland, Ohio at the time. That was before I moved to Montana. And I moved to Montana about 12 years ago. So it was probably between 12 and 13 years ago. I said 12 to 15. It was more likely 12 to 13 years ago. I mean, it's one thing to talk about a topic, to think about a topic, to write about a topic. It's another thing entirely to have a craft hovering 40-feet above you for an extended period of time. That, and for other reasons as well, that's why when I speak about this topic, I'm so convinced.

Eric Huffman: So that's sort of when the spark of interest sort of turned into a flame for you and it sets you on a path.

Timothy Alberino: Yes.

Eric Huffman: But even before that, as I understand it, you had an interest in prehistoric civilizations and maybe a supernatural phenomena that you started pursuing earlier in life, even your trips to Peru and things like that, that really shaped you. Can you talk at all about your experience in Peru at a young age and how that sort of sets you on the path you're still on today?

Hey everybody, Eric Huffman here. If you're as fascinated as I am by this conversation with Timothy Alberino, please make sure to subscribe and click the notification bell, because here on Maybe God, we're always sitting down with people who challenge conventional thinking, whether we're talking about theology, culture, the supernatural, or the deeper questions shaping the world around us. We've got a lot more conversations like these coming up. So be sure to get subscribed today, share your thoughts with us in the comments and send this episode to your friends and family who might be asking the same questions that you are. So as always, thank you for watching Maybe God. Now let's get back to my conversation with Timothy Alberino.

Timothy Alberino: Well, I can give you a very truncated version of that. I lived in Peru for approximately 10 years. And I ended up in Peru, and this is going to sound weird, I ended up in Peru because I got deported from England.

Eric Huffman: That's what happens.

Timothy Alberino: That's how I ended up in Peru. It's a long story, but I always say I dropped/got kicked out of high school in my senior year, at the beginning of my senior year. My dream was to go to Ireland and Scotland. To cut a very long story short, we got deported from Gatwick, England. We flew in there. We had a three-month trip planned. We're going to go up to Scotland, then over to Ireland, and then come back down to London and fly home. We got sequestered in the immigrations, whatever that's called, the holding facility, the holding room. It was me and my friend, Carlos Santiago, two American guys, and a bunch of Pakistanis. I won't bore you with the details, but we were interviewed by the immigrations officer who determined that... you know, she called me a yank. I've never been called a yank before in my life. You know, a Yankee. Obviously she didn't like us. It was all providential, though.

She deported us the next day. So I was exceedingly depressed. But the door opened for me to go to Peru. Right when I got back about a week or two after I came home. My dad was a pastor, non-denominational church in Ohio, in Cleveland, Ohio, in the environs of Cleveland, Ohio. And it just so happened that when I came back, there was a Mexican American missionary to Peru named Alfonso Felix preaching in my dad's church. And my stepmother, who had previously been to Peru on a mission trip told me, "You need to go to Peru." Because she saw how depressed I was about being deported from England. I was in Peru for a month and it was the most amazing experience. I mean, I was in the Amazon, the Peruvian Amazon, the city of Tarapoto. And I decided, "This is the door that's open. So I'm going to walk through it."

Went back home after a month, worked for a few months to make enough money to buy another ticket to just leave indefinitely. And that's what I did. I left indefinitely. I didn't even have enough money to fly from Cleveland to Lima, Peru, the capital of Peru. I had to take a Greyhound to Miami and fly to Lima from Miami, much cheaper ticket. And I got to prove $400 in my pocket. And I stayed. I didn't stay for 10 years straight. I stayed for a couple of years and... That's a very long story. But and then I came back and got married. Actually, I married a woman from my dad's church and then went, ended up going back to Peru. We lived in Peru, her and I, my wife, Jasmine, for seven years. Two of my boys were born there in the city of Tarapoto.

And I lived in the Amazon basin, Peru for those years. It was really during that time that I became intensely interested in all of these topics really, but specifically in giants. I remember my wife and I would stand on the roof of this particular home that we were renting. We were renting the second story of this building, this small little building. And we'd stand on the roof and at least on one occasion, but I think it was more than one occasion, we'd stand there and we would look out in the night. It would be the nighttime. We'd look out into the night sky and we would see these objects that were flying around in the sky, but they were maneuvering in a way that was impossible for conventional aircraft. I mean, even at the time I was still green in the topic, but these craft, whatever they were, you know, were moving very erratically.

So they'd be hovering and then all of a sudden they shoot over in some direction at instantaneous acceleration. And then they would go up and then they'd come down and they hover again and they'd shoot off. Even then I knew this cannot be, this is not conventional. This isn't a helicopter or a jetliner. There's something very, very secret happening here on planet.

Eric Huffman: Right. My in-laws are from Ecuador. My wife is Ecuadorian. She's an American now, but she's originally from Ecuador. And my in-laws have been telling me forever that UFO sightings are not that uncommon in the mountains and jungle of Ecuador.

Timothy Alberino: There's a lot of UFO activity in the jungle. I'm not sure why. What's interesting in South America... and I'm sorry, I don't mean to cut you off-

Eric Huffman: No, you're fine.

Timothy Alberino: What's interesting in South America is that if you talk to people in the jungle, most of the UFO encounters that are the close encounters are negative, are frightening. Sometimes, I mean, really terrifying. People have been attacked by UFOs in the jungle in Peru and in Brazil, the famous Coladas incident that happened in Brazil, where UFOs were attacking people in the village of Colares, but also in the Peruvian Amazon, the face peeler stuff that the... there's been many cases of people being attacked like a saucer will pursue them and then, in some cases, start to lift them off the ground and hit them with lasers, all kinds of crazy stuff.

But if you go to the Andes, it's a completely different situation. People have UFO encounters in the Andes, but most of what you'll hear is very non-threatening and sometimes it's even benevolent. I mean, there's stories of UFOs that land in villages up in the Andes, and the occupants will disembark. And in almost every story I've heard in the Andes, the occupants look like Scandinavians. They disembark and they heal people or whatever in the village. They're very benevolent. They get back into the craft and fly away. So it's like this bizarre dichotomy in South America where you have the quote-unquote benevolent ETs in the mountains and the malevolent ones in the jungle.

Eric Huffman: Interesting.

Timothy Alberino: I don't know how accurate that is, but that's the reality down there.

Eric Huffman: Yeah. And you've seen and heard enough of that to take it beyond the realm of anecdotal. You're saying it seems to be more than just coincidence.

Timothy Alberino: Yeah, there's no doubt. I mean, oftentimes many people have seen in Peru, especially on the coast, craft coming up out of the ocean, out of the Pacific Ocean and flying over the desert in towards the mountains or coming from the mountains and descending into the sea. They're always described, these craft, as being able to... they have transmedium capabilities where they can fly through the water and with the same ease as they fly through the atmosphere, which leads me to conclude that they're not necessarily moving through these mediums. They're moving the mediums around the craft.

Eric Huffman: Oh, interesting.

Timothy Alberino: In other words, there's some kind of a gravitational field, a gravitational bubble.

Eric Huffman: Yeah. It's fascinating. I just want to pause for a minute and just tell our listeners and viewers that if you hear Timothy talk about anything that really stokes your interest and you wish we would pause and talk about it and dig deep, we will talk more about things. You mentioned giants in passing earlier. We're going to talk about giants more in a second. But I just want to encourage our viewers and listeners to do a Google search or a YouTube search of Timothy Alberino and insert the topic because you've talked about almost all these different concepts at length in different videos online and your written work as well that I haven't mentioned yet.

Birthright is the book I'm holding and you've got a lot of other articles and things that you've written online. I just encourage our audience to dig deeper and check out more of what you've said about these things. Before we get into the weeds more, Timothy, I'm sure we have people watching and listening that just aren't convinced about any of this because we tend to reach a skeptical kind of audience. A lot of our listeners and viewers are just skeptical about everything. And so if you had to present a case, and I know this might be hard for you to do because you're so deep in it and you're so convinced about it, but if you had to present a case evidencing the phenomena in general that we're talking about, what would you point to as evidence that a skeptic should find compelling?

Timothy Alberino: Well, I wouldn't point to one singular thing. I would say that there's a multiplicity of evidence out there. Now, for so many decades, ufology was relegated to the tinfoil hat wearing community. But whereas today, obviously that's not true anymore. You have the president of the United States talking about UAP, UFOs, non-human intelligence, aliens, extraterrestrials, and of course, various people associated with the government, Pentagon, Pete Hegseth, the secretary of war, Marco Rubio, secretary of state, Tulsi Gabbard, who just resigned from DNI, all of these individuals fiercely interested in this topic.

Of course, the congressmen and women who are working on this, representatives, Eric Burleson, Tim Burchette, Ana Paulina Luna, among others, those are members of the House, but there's also members of the Senate, Jill LeBrand and others, who are very, Chuck Schumer, very, very interested in this topic and who are completely, utterly convinced of the reality of this phenomenon. I mean, this phenomenon is not fictional to these people. They know it's real. They don't know exactly what it is, but there's no question. I mean, anybody who doubts that the phenomenon is real at this point just hasn't been paying attention. There's absolutely no reason to doubt the reality of the phenomenon.

Eric Huffman: Yeah, they're happening. Something's going on. We just don't know-

Timothy Alberino: I would even go further and say, there's no reason to doubt the corporeality of this phenomenon. That it's physical. It's not just some sort of spiritual, supernatural apparition. I mean, this phenomenon is physical in every sense. So, you can look at what's happening in government and I interface with some people in government and nobody's chuckling behind the scenes. You know, nobody is having a good laugh at the American people, you know, thinking UFOs are real. No, they're deadly serious. Deadly serious.

People have died recently coming forward to, for example, Congressman Eric Burleson. By the way, it's Eric Burleson's office. Eric is doing phenomenal work. He hired one of the whistleblowers named David Grush, one of the first whistleblowers, the first whistleblower, actually, David Grush, who worked in the intelligence community. David has been working with Burleson and they've been doing a lot of excellent work behind the scenes. They had some individuals, at least one individual who they were going to interview, who's coming forward, as a whistleblower, to reveal some information to Congressman Burleson and to Congress in general. And that individual was murdered.

Eric Huffman: By whom? Do we know?

Timothy Alberino: Well, I mean, we can assume that it's... you know, there's sort of a trifecta. It's much more complicated than this, but there's sort of a trifecta of organizations that are involved here. You have the CIA, the Air Force, and the aerospace contractors. You also have the Navy that's involved in some of this. You have the Department of Energy that's involved in this, and then dozens of other institutions. But those are the primary ones.

As I always say, this is the greatest secret that the government has. There's a factional conflict happening right now at the governmental level. You have the secrecy group, and you have the disclosure group. The secrecy group wants to keep the lid on this thing completely utterly. They don't want the American people to know anything. And by the way, in that group, you have some good actors and some bad actors. The bad actors are the ones that do the wet works, you know, the assassinations. And those groups are usually contractors. They're not directly the government. They're contractors working for the aerospace companies, the wet works guys.

But then you have good guys in government. I would describe them as white hats who also think that the American people should not be informed. You have the so-called Collins elite who are allegedly this group of Christian, evangelical Christians who just think the whole thing is demonic. We shouldn't look at it. We shouldn't pay attention to it. The American people don't need to be informed about anything. We should keep the lid on tightly.

Eric Huffman: Is that to maintain social order and calm or what is it?

Timothy Alberino: I don't know. It seems to me that they think that, you know, exploring this phenomenon is akin to divination or intercourse with demons and all of that. And then on the other side of the aisle, you have the disclosure group who are fighting for, advocating for limited disclosure. And I interface with these people. Limited disclosure. And what they mean by limited disclosure, this includes the Congressmen and women working on this. They want to tell the American people the baseline reality of this phenomenon. "Okay. We're not alone. We've recovered exotic vehicles, non-human. That's the baseline."

And the big thing that they're working for, working toward, fighting for is oversight. They want congressional oversight because right now there's no oversight. Zero. So the American people have... much of our taxes have gone into these programs. We're all familiar that the Pentagon can't pass an audit, right? I mean, where does all the money go? Well, the answer is it goes into black projects. A lot of the money goes into black projects. And those black projects, these are unacknowledged special access projects, many of them. Some of them are just special access programs. And many of them are unacknowledged, which means they're off the books.

Our money goes to fund things that we don't know what we're funding, right? So we are involuntarily participating in something that we're being lied to about. Well, there's no oversight there. There's no congressional oversight. So if you don't have oversight over a program... you know, Congress represents the American people. It's supposed to represent the American people. And in our form of government, the American people are supposed to be informed and be making the decisions. Obviously, that doesn't happen all the time.

But these programs, the legacy program, and when I say legacy program, I'm referring to the crash retrieval program of exotic non-human technology primarily, it was intentionally formulated, intentionally designed to circumvent oversight. And so that's what these guys want. They want limited disclosure. They want oversight over the programs, congressional oversight. And they want the American people to be informed of the baseline reality. And they want to prosecute the criminals, because there's a lot of dark stuff happening. They want to prosecute the criminals. I know I've gone far afield of... You know, where am I?

Eric Huffman: No, that's fascinating. It's fascinating.

Timothy Alberino: I would add that, you know, I mentioned the Collins elite on the one hand, this group of evangelical Christians, the so-called Collins elite, who want to keep the lid on, but on the other side of the aisle, you have a lot of Christians who want to tell the American people the truth. So you have Christians on both sides of this thing. Some of them want to perpetuate the secrecy. Some want to inform the American people of the truth. And I'm on that side. I think that tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may. Just tell the truth. And I think the truth should always prevail.

Eric Huffman: Sure. I think I agree with that. We can talk more about why I agree with that theory of yours. Because I do think that this conspiracy to conceal can only lead to more darkness and more deception. And I think deception is the name of the game, as we'll get into at the end of our conversation. But tell us as best as you can, what, given all your research and the conversations you have with people involved, what are these phenomena? What are UFOs really? How can we explain and understand them and not just the crafts, but the beings, embodied beings that seem to be controlling them?

Timothy Alberino: Well, UFOs have at least two sources, NHI, non-human intelligence, and human intelligence. So human beings and non-human beings. Nobody really knows how advanced our human technology is now. We have what's called ARVs, alien reproduction vehicles, at this point, where we have recovered crash retrieval program, which has been going on for decades. We've recovered craft and we've been reverse-engineering various components, deriving technologies, and creating hybridized craft, which are an amalgamation of exotic and conventional components.

There's a type of flying saucer that people call the eight gun. Jake Barber, who's a whistleblower, came out and he coined this terminology, the eight gun, because a typical flying saucer has no rivets. It has no seams. It looks like it's molded from a singular piece of material. Whereas the hybridized vehicles, the ARVs, the ones that we make, they look like they sort of... the eight guns look like a flying saucer, but they have eight segmented parts to them.

Eric Huffman: But even the ones that are human intelligence derived, even those are probably reverse-engineered from the wreckage of craft.

Timothy Alberino: I would say definitely. So those are out there. People see UFOs, even Tic Tacs, potentially. You may be looking at Lockheed Martin technology, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, or the other military aerospace contractors. So a lot of what people see today is probably us, but not all of it. The phenomenon is not just human tech. It's non-human tech. That's the part that people struggle with. Obviously, Christians have a hard time with this one, especially.

Eric Huffman: That's the part I'd like to focus on especially is non-human intelligence, crafts and beings. I know you're a Christian. You've studied the Bible, especially as far as these topics are concerned, and I value your insights here. So what's your biblical or Christian interpretation of the non-human intelligence behind these phenomena?

Timothy Alberino: So my approach to this topic, first and foremost, as a Christian, I think that the proper approach is one of humility, understanding that we're not told everything. The Bible doesn't inform us about everything. That's the first thing we need to understand.

God has His secrets. The Bible tells us He has His secrets. In Deuteronomy 29:29, we read that the secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those things which have been revealed belong to us and our children forever. What are the things that have been revealed? Well, obviously, the number one thing is the gospel of Christ has been revealed to us. That's the primary purpose of the scriptures, by the way, is to convey the gospel of Christ. That's been revealed to us. That belongs to us and our children forever.

But God does secret things. God doesn't tell us about everything that's going on in the universe. In fact, this is illustrated in the activity of angels in the scriptures. Angel is a very amorphous term. Christians, we sometimes think that we know a lot about angels because the Bible talks a lot about angels, but it's all very amorphous. It's all extremely ambiguous. What we're told about angels is there's two kinds of experiences that people have with angels. One is in the prophetic context, the prophetic material, which is visionary. The other is in the narrative, the actual historical narrative.

So these are two different contexts. You have the prophetic material, which I think sometimes we forget that in most cases, these guys who are having these visions are sleeping. These are dreams. Most of them. Some of them are trances. A lot of them are dreams. All of the Anarchic material is dreams. Much of the prophetic content of the Old Testament is dreams. Not all of it. There's trances as well.

So that's the first thing that students of the Bible have to do if they're going to approach this topic from a biblical angle. Differentiate between the visionary content and the narrative context, because those are two different things. Now, if we look at the narrative... and the reason why I'm saying this is because in the narrative of Scripture, in the historical narrative, angels are never depicted with wings. That's a misconception. Angels don't have wings. There's a couple of occasions in the prophetic narrative in which angels are depicted with wings. You have cherubim, you have seraphim, you have these various classifications, but that's all symbolic. That is a world of symbolism, like a dream.

In the historical narrative, angels don't have wings and they look very much like us. In fact, they can be confused for us. We're told in the New Testament that we can entertain angels unawares. Now, the traditional interpretation of this is that angels are spiritual beings disembodied that, quote unquote, take on physicality.

Eric Huffman: Or the appearance of physicality.

Timothy Alberino: They take on corporeality.

Eric Huffman: Right.

Timothy Alberino: So the problem that I've had with that for such a long time is, well, if that's true, then we're essentially dealing with genies. We're dealing with the genie from Aladdin's lamp that can just transform himself into whatever he wants. A monkey, a parrot, a teacup, right? I think that's ascribing to angelic beings powers that the biblical text does not give them. And that's a true statement, by the way.

So I think that we need to shift the way that we're thinking about the kingdom of heaven. We know that, according to the scriptures, again, the term angel, very amorphous, it just simply means a messenger, an envoy, one who is sent. And it's not used exclusively of human beings in the scriptures. Or rather of non-human beings in the scriptures. It's used of human beings as well. I mean, human messengers, envoys are sometimes called angels in the Old Testament because it's a job description. It's an occupational descriptor.

So the term angel doesn't give us any insight into the nature of the being. None. This is where we've made a mistake in Western Christianity. We have taken the figure of the angel and we have presuppositions attached to the angel. The angels are spiritual, disembodied beings. That's a presupposition. Where does it come from? Well, it doesn't come from the Scriptures.

We know that angels are messengers from the kingdom of heaven. They are dispatched to deliver messages. But what is their nature? And how long have they been in existence? These are questions that are not explicitly answered in the scriptures. But we do get intimations. For example, in the book of Job, we read that the sons of God were shouting for joy and the morning stars were singing together when God was fashioning the foundations of planet earth. Or reforming planet earth, rejuvenating the earth, however you would have it. That's a pre-Adamic context. There's no human beings in the picture yet.

So we can establish, according to the scriptures, angels, this ambiguous group called angels, which are here defined as the sons of God and the morning stars. And those are very, very important denominations that they preexist us. They are preexistent. We also know that because of the Psalms, David says that mankind was created to be a little lower than the heavenly beings. So they are also preeminent, which means that we're a little lower than them. They're higher up in the pecking order. So they're preexistent and they're preeminent according to the scriptures. Okay. We can establish those two things.

We can go further. The designation son of God, this is a familial designation. The term "son of God" is not incidental. It's intentional. So you have members of a family, the sons of God, before human beings are in the picture. And we know, according to the Scriptures, through the genealogy of Jesus of Nazareth, for example, that Adam was a son of God. Adam was created to be a son of God. So what do we have here?

Again, the language is not incidental. It's intentional. This is the language of a family. We're talking about a family here. We have sons of God who preexist us, and then we have Adam who was created originally to be a son of God, a member of the family. You have a family. You have an older sibling and a younger sibling in that family. Well, guess what we get? We get the parable of the prodigal son. Ultimately, we don't have to go there right now. So you have a family dynamic. Older siblings who are in the picture preexist us. They're preeminent. We're created to be like them, but a little lower than them.

And then the designation morning stars, which is just another designation for those sons of God, what does that mean? Well, morning stars. Morning stars conveys the exceeding agedness of these beings. That they are very, very ancient. They're the first. When the morning stars is... these are the first stars to appear. The morning stars, these are beings who were created early on in creation. That's what the designation is conveying. These are the morning stars. These are the beings who were created before us, who exist in the universe previous to the creation of mankind. All of these ideas are being conveyed in the scriptures. But we overlook them because we've relegated angels to this servile class of disembodied beings, and their purpose in the universe is to serve us. I mean, that is, generally speaking. And I'll take a break here and you can... I don't want to dominate.

Eric Huffman: You've said a lot and I want to respond to some of it, but I do agree with much of what you've said. It's clear there's a lot of confusion around angels, even in Christian circles today, because you said, you know, the Bible has a lot to say about angels, so we think we know a lot, but most of what people assume about angels is absolutely untrue. That's biblically evidenced that it's untrue that angels are pretty young women with blonde hair and blue eyes, or that angels are chubby babies floating on the clouds with wings, you know, like you'll see in the Hallmark cards. None of that is biblical at all. That's some medieval stuff that got smuggled in.

I do wonder, though, about the bifurcation you created between, or you offered up between historical angels in the narrative and prophetic angels. I wonder if it's just possible that there's different categories of angels. Like there are angels that appear like we appear, like in bodily form, they look human-esque in their appearance because God made them that way. And then there are angels with wings in the heavenly realms, guarding the throne, cherubim, seraphim, whatever. Is that a possibility in your framework?

Timothy Alberino: It's certainly a possibility, but the problem with the prophetic... again, this is... we haven't been taught a differentiation between prophetic material and narrative material. This is the realm of scholars. I mean, this is what they do all the time. They make that bifurcation. They separate those two ideas. This is visionary. This is narrative.

The reason why you separate those ideas is very simple. If you last night had a dream and in your dream you are riding a unicorn on a rainbow and you see all kinds of strange things, I don't know, maybe there's leprechauns running around, who knows, you may wake up from that dream in the morning and you may feel profoundly impacted by it. This happens all the time. Profoundly impacted. Like there was something really important about that dream. You can't get it out of your mind. All the emotions are still with you when you wake up in the morning. Sometimes it's negative dreams, positive dreams, whatever. Most of our dreams are innocuous, but sometimes you have that dream that you'll never forget for the rest of your life.

Now, when you wake up in the morning, there's two things you know. You know, number one, that you were asleep. So you know that you weren't actually riding a unicorn at night. You were not galloping on a rainbow. You know that. You don't even question it. You just know it. You know it was a dream.

The second thing you know is that whatever that dream means, it's symbolic. It's not literal. You would never interpret that dream literally. You already know this. We already know this intuitively. I mean, rarely do you run into somebody who interprets their dreams literally. People who interpret their dreams literally are the kind of people you want to stay away from in social gathering, right?

Eric Huffman: Yeah. I get that.

Timothy Alberino: You just know that dreams are a visionary realm. Your body is laying on the bed, your consciousness is doing something that we really don't understand yet. And you're having these experiences, but your body is just there limp. You're snoring away, but you're in this different visionary world. So we should take that understanding and that context and apply it to the scriptures because the prophets, in most cases, are sleeping. They're having dreams. And if they're not sleeping, they're in a trance. In both cases, that individual has not gone anywhere, right? Hasn't gone anywhere. This is very, very important.

So let's say Ezekiel's having his visions, all the wild visions that Ezekiel's having. He's in a trance. If you were to walk up to Ezekiel, you could poke him. You could touch. He didn't go anywhere. He's sitting there in a trance. So what can we deduce from that scenario? This experience is perceptual. It's not physical. It's perceptual. It's information that is being delivered to us in a visionary context, just like a dream.

The visionary world is a world of symbolism. It's a world of symbolism. The book of Revelation. Everyone accepts that the book of Revelation is symbolism, right? Nobody interprets... nobody that I know of, no serious, certainly no serious scholar would ever interpret the book of Revelation literally. Everybody knows that it's all symbolism. It all has to be unpacked. If you're a serious student of the scriptures, you know that. Well, the same goes for all of the prophetic and visionary material in the Old Testament.

Now, Jesus said, Jesus says a very, very bizarre statement. "No man has descended into heaven except for the son of man who descended from heaven." Jesus also said no man has seen the Father at any time. But no man has descended into heaven. Okay, well, that clinches it. Nobody has gone into heaven and seen the Father sitting on a throne. All of those experiences have been perceptual.

People say, well, what about Enoch? Enoch was taken to heaven. No, actually he wasn't. If you read the Enochic material, the book of Enoch, 1 Enoch, it's all a dream. It's all a dream. And the information that is conveyed through this medium is symbolic. It's encoded. It needs to be unpacked. And it's very much like, if I send you... let's say I've got, you know, like a dozen pictures I want to send you and some PDFs and some info about something and I create a zip file on my computer. So, I take that folder and I zip it and I name it something, and then I send you that folder. Well, the folder is zipped. The contexts are contained within the folder. But when you receive that folder in your email and you put it on your desktop, that's not the end. All you can infer about the contents of that folder is the title of the folder. You can make some inferences based on the... maybe or maybe not.

But in order to understand, in order to get the content, what do you got to do? You have to unzip it. You have to extract it. Well, that's what symbolism is. Symbolism is a way to convey information rapidly and packaged so that you can convey a ton of information in symbolism.

I'll give you an example. You have the cherubim in the scriptures. The cherubim are depicted variously as a composite of four beings and four creatures. I say variously because in one case, you have a creature with four faces, right? The face of a man, the face of an eagle, the face of a lion, and the face of a bull or an ox. In another case, it's not four faces, okay? Cherubim, same thing, but it's not four faces, but it is the same composite of the four creatures. The head of a man, not four heads, one head, the head of a man, the body, the four parts of a lion, the hind parts of an ox, the wings of an eagle.

So for those who take the cherubim literally, my question to you is, which of these cherubim is an accurate anatomical depiction? Which one is it? Is it four faces, or is it just a composite of four things? Well, it's neither. This is a symbolic representation. This is a zipped folder. The contents have to be extracted and interpreted and decoded.

The cherubim is not a Hebrew symbol. It's a very popular symbol in the ancient Near East in general. It's in the ancient Persians, the Babylonians, goes all the way back to ancient Mesopotamia, the ancient Egyptians. They all have cherubim symbolism. And it always means the same thing, the cherubim of the throne guardians.

Eric Huffman: So 30 minutes ago or so, I asked you about what these alien creatures are and we started down this path of angels. And as fascinating as this is, I want to try to bring us back to the aliens and what the connection is there. Why you started us down the path of angels, are aliens angels, I guess is the plainest way to put it.

Timothy Alberino: There's no simple answer. So we have in the picture, when we open our Bibles, the biblical narrative unapologetically introduces us to a race of beings who are indisputably older than we are and also more extraordinary. I mean, they're preeminent. We were created to be a little lower than them. So they are therefore extraterrestrial by definition. They weren't created on the earth.

The word extraterrestrial, by the way, it simply means a being whose provenance is not planet earth. If you have sons of God shouting for joy, morning stars singing together when the foundations of the earth are being laid or renewed before the creation of Adam, then it's clear that these beings aren't from here. They're not from the earth. The Bible is pretty explicit about that. They come from this place called the kingdom of heaven or the kingdom of God.

And there's very little we know about the kingdom of God, but we do know because of Jesus primarily that it's not all that different from what we understand as a kingdom here on earth. In fact, our framework for understanding a kingdom on planet earth comes from something that pre-exists us. We did not invent civilization. We inherited it because it existed in the universe before we ever were created. It had to.

So this is a place where things are being done that we're very familiar with. I mean, there's courts, there's courtiers, there's couriers, there's a standing army. And you can take any one of these... By the way, there's eating and drinking, there's music. So, you can take any one of these ideas and unpack it, but let's just focus on that idea of a standing army. What is the purpose of an army? What is the purpose of an army? It is, if not to protect the borders of a realm. To defend the borders of a realm, right?

So, we have a kingdom. Jesus said the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. So, there's a scenario in which you have the hosts of heaven... by the way, that's a martial term. The host means the armies of heaven, something like that. So, you have these armies of heaven, these are not human beings, and they're coming from somewhere called the kingdom of heaven or the kingdom of God. We're talking about a civilization here. That's what we're talking about. I believe that the kingdom of heaven has locality somewhere in the universe.

So, you have a situation in which you... again, you open your Bible, you have extraterrestrials in the picture immediately. Immediately. Now, people can try and dance around this and say, well, no, no, they're not extraterrestrial. They're interdimensional, or they're spiritual beings. It doesn't matter. Does it make a difference? The context is extraterrestrial. They're not from planet Earth. They come from somewhere else, whether it's somewhere else in the universe or some other universe or however you would have it. They're not from here.

So, what I'm trying to pick here is when you open the scriptures, you are automatically in an extraterrestrial context. There are things that happen on earth among beings who are born here, namely human beings, and there are things that are happening not on earth, somewhere else, and beings who come from somewhere that is... where their time and space has to be traversed. We know this, you know, when Daniel's praying and God dispatches Gabriel. Well, Gabriel has to traverse time and space to get to Daniel. He doesn't just appear like I dream of Genie or like the Genie from Aladdin's lamp. He has to traverse time and space to get to Daniel. And he's blockaded at some point. And God has to dispatch Michael to break the blockade so that Gabriel can deliver the message to Daniel. That is a time and space phenomenon. There's a traversal of time and space.

So, angels are using technology. Yes, they are. There's something called the chariots of God, variously called the chariots of God, the chariots of Israel, the chariots of fire. Well, what are these things? They are vehicles of conveyance. Clearly, they take you from A to Z. You know, people will argue, some scholars will argue, no, this is just temple language and symbolism. No, these are vehicles of conveyance. Why? Because Elijah is about to depart and Elisha refuses to leave his side. Elisha is insistent. He's going to be there when Elijah departs so that he can get the anointing, right?

Eric Huffman: Yeah.

Timothy Alberino: And Elijah tries to get him to leave, but he won't leave. He sticks to Elijah. He's going to be there. He's determined to be there when God takes Elijah. He knew God was going to take Elijah. So, what happens? Well, one day, a chariot of Israel, right, synonymous with the chariots of God, the chariots of fire, a chariot of Israel arrives. Elijah gets into it and then it takes off. How do we know that it's a chariot of Israel? Because Elisha exclaims, "My father, my father, the chariots of Israel and it's horsemen." So, where did Elijah go? He got into a chariot of Israel.

Eric Huffman: A flying chariot.

Timothy Alberino: Okay. Well, listen, horses don't fly. We're not obligated to believe that horses fly. We know reindeer don't fly, and sleighs are meant for snow, not for the atmosphere. Well, we can apply the same logical thinking to the scriptures. There's no reason we can't. So, we know horses don't fly. Everything that flies is created to fly. Everything that runs on four legs is created to do it. Everything is created specifically to do what it does. Horses don't fly. So, this is a vehicle of conveyance that is being... the best analog that they had back then was a chariot. That was the most advanced vehicle conveyance.

So, Elijah gets into something, some aerospace vehicle, let's call it, and goes away. And I don't think he went to heaven, by the way. I think he went somewhere else on the earth, but that's another concept. He goes away. He goes away. He's just said, "No man has ascended into heaven." So, he goes away. So, right there, we have an extraterrestrial context. We have beings who are not from the earth, who are not us, who preexist us. And now we know, we can infer that they use some kind of vehicle of conveyance to get from A to Z. They don't poof into existence. They use technology. They play instruments. They eat and drink. They eat and drink with us. They eat and drank with Abraham, and then with Lot before they destroyed the city of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Eric Huffman: Right? So, if I'm hearing you right, Timothy, it sounds like the simple brass tacks way of saying it might be that some of these alien encounters or extraterrestrial encounters are not nefarious. They're not all from the dark side, as you might hear from some Christians and theologians. Is that right?

Timothy Alberino: That's true. What we've done so far is we've established that the biblical narrative presents us with extraterrestrial beings who are coming from somewhere that is not planet Earth and that utilize technology, including vehicles of conveyance. Now, most of these, in fact, all of these encounters where you have them eating and drinking and showing up in the chariots of fire, it's all the good guys. It's all the good guys. We know the bad guys are in the picture because the devil and his angels.

What we've done is we've sort of created this bizarre dichotomy between the good angels and the bad angels, where we call the bad angels fallen angels, which is not a biblical term. I don't mind it because I know what it means. But the better term, and this isn't a biblical term either, but it's more accurate, would be to describe them as defected sons of God or apostate sons of God. So, you have the good angels, you have the bad angels. They must look the same. It's like, you know, good human beings and bad human beings don't look different. We just all look like human beings. Some of us are more benevolent than others. Some of us are just extremely malevolent and evil, but you'd never be able to tell just by looking at a lineup of human faces, who's benevolent and who's malevolent. This is the same thing with the quote-unquote fallen angels. That's why Satan presents himself as a messenger of light. So, people think that when we read that, oh, see, Satan presents himself, he transforms himself as an angel of light. And what we do is we say, that means that Satan is this grotesque, ugly being, but who can metamorphosize himself into a beautiful-looking being to trick us, to deceive us. Well, but if Satan is a son of God, you know, an apostate son of God, and that means he looks like the other angelic beings, which means that he already looks handsome. He's already come late. He doesn't need to transform his appearance.

Eric Huffman: Doesn't the Old Testament… I think it's Ezekiel that refers to Satan as the most beautiful. There's plenty of biblical evidence to support he doesn't have to change his appearance to seem like an angel of light.

Timothy Alberino: He was the most splendorous being in creation. So, there's no indication that when Satan rebelled, he became ugly. We've read that into the narrative. There's nothing, nothing, zero that says that everything referring to the dragon, to this satanic being in the scriptures, depicts him as being cunning and beautiful. So, he doesn't have to transform into something beautiful. He already is. He's a messenger of deception. He pretends to be a messenger of light when, in fact, his intent is utterly dark and darkness and evil.

And so, these are misconceptions, and what we've done is we've built mythologies onto these ideas. And the reason why I'm highlighting that particular verse, I think it's in Galatians, is because...

Eric Huffman: 2 Corinthians 11.

Timothy Alberino: 2 Corinthians 11, thank you. ...is because we tend to think about the powers of darkness as these spiritual forces that are grotesque, that are holding council in the fires of hell. All of this is medieval iconography. There's nothing in the scriptures that should give us that framework for understanding the powers of darkness. The powers of darkness are identical. The bad guys are identical to the good guys. What differentiates them is their motives and their allegiance.

Now, why do I highlight that? Because in the beginning of this conversation, I was talking about the Andean mountains, how people see benevolent beings disembarking from UFOs. Well, I would expect if the good guys are using technology, then the bad guys are using technology. They come from the same civilization. They speak the same language. Automatically, when you read the scriptures, you should expect, as if you're a modern reader, you should expect, even if you're not a modern reader, you should expect to see something happening in the atmosphere because you've got the good guys and the bad guys who are in the picture. They're extraterrestrial. They're using technology.

That defines some of the phenomenon. It gives you the substratum. To begin to comprehend what might be going on here, you've got good angels and bad angels operating in the atmosphere of planet Earth, and they have been since before human beings were created. So they've been here. The bad guys are probably constrained here. The good guys come and go. This is kind of the idea that we get in the scriptures. They're dispatched on messages. The bad guys sometimes hinder them, blockade them. There's warfare happening. So it shouldn't even surprise us that some of these vehicles would crash if you have different factions involved, and maybe there's conflict happening.

Eric Huffman: Working against each other.

Timothy Alberino: Yeah. I mean, just from a biblical paradigm, none of this should be surprising to us, honestly. But there's other things in play because angels are not gray aliens, or gray aliens are not angels. The typical gray with the big bulbous head and the almond-shaped black eyes. Those things exist. Those things are real. Oftentimes when people recover biological non-human bodies, it's those things or something like some variation of gray alien. Not always, but in many cases.

And so what are those? Well, the problem that we have, another problem we have is we're confronted here with a mystery. We're confronted here with a thing that is unexpected. By the way, I believe that the sons of God... that we look like the sons of God, that's why when they appear in the narrative, the angelic beings, that we look like them, we can entertain them unawares. I think that's actually how they look. And that those are the exalted beings. The good ones are in the family of God. They're the princes of the kingdom of heaven. The bad ones who look the same, they're the princes of the kingdom of darkness. They're in a state of rebellion, insubordination, and apostasy. Those are the exalted members of the family. Those are the highest order of beings in the universe. But are there other beings in the universe that are not angels, that are just sentient beings that have been created, and that are not members of the family, but are in the universe? That's a very valid question.

And people, when presented with that question, because obviously Christians can't deny the existence of angels, or fallen angels, when presented with that question, this is where you get the vitriolic reaction. Because what we want to do automatically is we want to reach into the Bible. We want to find a Bible word to plaster it over the mystery. That's what we want to do. That's not necessarily a bad impulse. It's just what we feel like we need to do. We need to look for a biblical word.

And people, what they'll do is there's two words that they find. They find the word demon, and they find the word Nephilim. And they take one of these words or combination, and they say, aha, we've got these two words that we can apply to this phenomenon and solve it. Right?

Eric Huffman: Right.

Timothy Alberino: That's it. All in a day's work, right? We solve this thing. We've got this thing figured out. These are demons, or these are Nephilim, or these are whatever. And I think that's exceedingly presumptuous. I think that rather than do that, we should allow for the facts to define the phenomenon and not be threatened by whatever the results are, whatever the truth happens to be. Because you can search the scriptures diligently day and night, and you will never find a single verse, not one, unless you really torture some verses, you're not going to find a single verse that explicitly defines artificial intelligence or robots or robots with artificial intelligence. Right?

Eric Huffman: Yeah.

Timothy Alberino: And yet here we are living in 2026 with robots and artificial intelligence. I mean, we could play this game with the internet or whatever. There are obviously realities that we are confronted with, that we are living with in the modern world that are not explicitly defined in the scriptures, because that's not the purpose of the scriptures. The purpose of the scriptures is to convey the gospel of Christ, to reveal to us the nature of God, to instruct us in how to live uprightly in a righteous way that is pleasing to God, and to some extent, to safeguard us against deception.

Eric Huffman: Yeah. I've always said the Bible is... you know, it's not comprehensive in that we get all the knowledge that's out there. We get sufficient knowledge for salvation and we get coherent knowledge about history and ourselves and what, who God is. But there's mystery that's beyond the scope of scripture. And I think that's by God's design. I mean, you said it earlier for the Deuteronomy, what was it? 28?

Timothy Alberino: 29:29.

Eric Huffman: 29:29.

Timothy Alberino: The secret things belong to the Lord, our God. Those things which are revealed belong to us and our children.

Eric Huffman: So is the point you're making, sorry to interrupt you, Timothy, is the point you're making that there are potentially beings or criteria of beings that are not explicitly spelled out in the Bible that God may have created anyway?

Timothy Alberino: Yes. Proverbs 25:2, it is the glory of God to conceal things, and the glory of Kings to search things out. You have this pervasive idea you find it all over the place, especially on social media, Christian community: God would have told us about this. According to what? The Bible certainly does not tell you that. The Bible tells you that God has secrets and He conceals things. He reveals things in their time. He tells us some things, things that are profitable for us to know. He doesn't tell us everything.

The best way to illustrate this is the disciples say that were they to write down everything that Jesus of Nazareth said and did, it couldn't be contained in all the books of the world or something like that. Endless volumes. So there are lots of things, probably really, really important things that Jesus said and did, miracles that were not recorded in the Scriptures. The Bible doesn't tell us everything, not even about the activity of Jesus on earth. It tells us enough. It gives us the baseline. It instructs us in the principles of faith and life for those who are believing in Christ. Again, and it conveys the gospel of Christ.

The Bible is incredible. It is so simple on one hand that you could give a teenager, you could give a 10-year-old a New Testament, and they can read that New Testament and completely understand the gospel of Christ. Completely understand the gospel of Christ. But at the same time, you give them the entirety of the Bible and much of the prophetic context and all this other stuff, which is very deep, very symbolic; they have no idea. And even scholars today can only guess at certain things because there's this complexity and this simplicity in the Scripture.

Eric Huffman: And I want a God who's bigger than me. I want a God who knows more than us. Without that, I'm not sure He'd be God. With that said, I'm not sure I fully understand the need to write in another race of beings that these gray aliens could be. If we're saying that the positive angels of God take these chariots, these vehicles, and they're responsible for some of the sightings that we have, why not just say, you know, it makes the most sense that the fallen or rebellious angels of God are responsible for the nefarious appearances?

Timothy Alberino: Well, I suppose that's possible. And I don't know the answers. I don't know. What are aliens? I don't know. It's possible. And people have postulated that fallen angels created gray aliens. They manufacture them. Or gray aliens are meat suits for demons because demons are disembodied spirits. Or a combination of those things is what I often hear. To me, that's just presumptuous. We don't know what the heck these things are.

Eric Huffman: We don't know.

Timothy Alberino: Look, here's what we know. We live on planet earth. We live here. We see the fingerprint of our maker on the earth. There is enough information in nature, according to Paul, that mankind should be able to understand that there is a maker and even know Him to some extent, right? That's why nobody's without excuse. Or nobody has an excuse, rather, to not believe in God because nature testifies. The heavens declare the glory of God.

Eric Huffman: Sure.

Timothy Alberino: So we have the fingerprint of the Maker here on earth. How many things did God create on earth? A few things? 10 things? 20 things? How about millions of diverse species? So what can we deduce from this? Or extrapolate, rather. The Maker likes to create things. He makes a profusion of life, not a few things, so many things that we haven't even discovered everything yet. He makes a profusion of life. And that life varies. It varies in regard to its sentience.

You have insects. They're lower on the spectrum of consciousness, let's say. And then you have things like chimpanzees and elephants and dolphins who have all kinds of emotions. I mean, some of these things... creatures cry. An elephant will cry. A sloth will cry if it's wounded or if there's a death of one of its family members. So you have this wide range of emotion, consciousness, just here. So I think it's ludicrous for us to look around in this place we live, and then as we're contemplating, attempting to contemplate the cosmos, the totality of created order to say, "Uh-uh, uh-uh, there's only a few things up there." When we're standing in the midst of planet Earth with this profusion of biodiversity, we look up and we say, "No, no, there's only a couple things up there." I just think that is presumptuous and arrogant.

Eric Huffman: I think it's a Christian impulse we should be aware of and be wary of. I guess it's a version of the God of the Gaps critique of Christian philosophy sometimes from atheists and agnostics that would say, "We're just trying to plug God into the unknowns. And the more we find out, the less we need God. That's a fallacy we should avoid." And we shouldn't feel threatened by mystery. I think that's the general takeaway. We don't know what these gray aliens are. We know, however, a lot of what they're up to, right, a lot of what they do.

Timothy Alberino: Oh, yes.

Eric Huffman: Talk to us about what that might say about who they are or what their mission is with human beings based on what they do.

Timothy Alberino: Specifically, if we're talking about gray aliens, we can say definitively based on what we know about gray aliens. Much of this material comes from alien abduction. The alien abduction phenomenon is real. We know that what they're doing is nefarious. So I can confidently say that gray aliens are demonic in the sense that what they're doing is nefarious. They're taking people against their will. They're inducting them into what appears to be a hybrid breeding program. They're subjecting them to all kinds of, in some cases, very painful procedures. The abduction phenomenon... by the way, the abduction phenomenon, it's not demonic possession. It's not an out-of-body experience. It's not like a psychedelic experience. It's not just sleep paralysis. You are physically removed from the point of abduction and brought onto an alien vessel. It involves people who span the spectrum of ethnicity from all different continents, every continent, every walk of life. It doesn't matter. You can be a blue-collar guy, working on a construction site, or you can be a senator in the United States Congress. It doesn't make a difference.

And by the way, it spans the boundaries. It breaches the boundaries of religion. It doesn't matter what your religious background is. You can be an atheist. You can be a Hindu. You can be Muslim, or you can be a Christian. This is the reality. And there's been a lot of misconception injected into this topic, I would say by well-meaning people. The idea that is being perpetuated is that the abduction phenomenon is equivalent to demonic activity in the sense that it's equivalent to demon possession or out-of-body experience or something like that. And that Christians are not abductees or that Christians can stop alien abduction. There's a lot of that out there. And I'm sorry to say it just does not comport to the reality.

I know plenty of Christians... I don't know if you wanted to go deep into abduction here, but there are plenty of Christians, pastors, many of them who come to me who are abductees, them, their children and so forth. I get these emails all the time and I interface with these people all the time. So the abduction phenomenon is physical. It's as crazy as it seems, it is a stone-cold reality. When you research this topic, you go back and you read... Dr. John Mack, who was the professor of psychology at Harvard University, wrote about alien abduction, but primarily Bud Hopkins, the late Bud Hopkins, the late Dr. Carla Turner, and the still living Dr. David Jacobs, all of these individuals who interviewed collectively thousands and thousands of abductees have extracted the same information, the same suite of details. So we know quite a lot and it's great. Is this the activity of gray aliens? So we know quite a lot.

Eric Huffman: Broadly speaking, what's the goal of the abductions from the-

Timothy Alberino: To create human-alien hybrids who are indistinguishable from us, but who retain the fierce telepathic capabilities of the grays and who are utterly aligned with the program of grays who are completely loyal to non-human factions.

Eric Huffman: So they sexually copulate or they somehow remove the necessary material?

Timothy Alberino: It's genetic engineering. It's genetic engineering. They take ova from women, they take sperm from men. They do something in vitro. They add in some sort of an exotic component. They implant the zygote into the woman. The woman carries it for about three months when it's a fetus. And then the fetus is extracted at about three-month period. Unless the woman is... by the way, it's not uncommon for a woman who's celibate, virgin to suddenly have a fetus. And she goes to her gynecologist, the gynecologist, of course, doesn't believe that she's a virgin. And she's completely perplexed. How can this be? How do I have a baby in my womb? I'm not with any man. And then suddenly the fetus is extracted. The fetus is gone. Goes back to the gynecologist, the gynecologist... there's no trace of it. Gynecologist tells her, "Well, you must've had a miscarriage."

Eric Huffman: Gosh.

Timothy Alberino: This is not uncommon.

Eric Huffman: I just want to say, people that are watching or listening and rolling their eyes because they're skeptical of this stuff, just do your homework. I mean, it needs an explanation. I guess there's multiple kinds of explanations, but it can't just be dismissed as mythology because these stories are being told in real time by different people in different places, as you said, across cultures and religions. And so there's something going on.

Timothy Alberino: You'll never talk to somebody who's been read in to the program. I'm talking about read in at the governmental level to the phenomenon or any of the whistleblowers who will scoff at the idea of alien abduction. They know 100% for sure that it's real. It's happening. Matt Gaetz is out there talking about the hybrid program.

At this point we're so far down the road it's... The abduction stuff has not hit the mainstream yet. It's coming. It's coming, believe me, but it's not at the mainstream yet. This is one of the things that the secrecy group is most intensely interested in keeping quiet. But yeah. So based on the abduction phenomenon, I think it's reasonable to deduce that this faction is up to no good. Again, I would use the term demonic as it pertains to gray aliens.

So when I approach this topic, I think you have to have the correct framework right out of the gates, which we defined previously, but also we've been hamstrung in the West. Christians in the West have been hamstrung with this... you said it earlier and you're exactly right, with this medieval theology. The medieval theology has injected into it some philosophical ideas that are not derived from the scriptures. They're derived from different philosophies, Neoplatonism and so forth, that even by the way, Gnosticism, which separate the physical world from the spiritual world. The physical world is inferior in some ways, bad, the spiritual world is superior, so forth. That's not a biblical concept. God created the earth and He saw that it was good. So there's plenty of... we don't have to go down that path, but we're hamstrung with some of this baggage. And so we can't accommodate the realities.

What I'm trying to help people do is expand their paradigm, rearrange the theological furniture in their mind, so to speak. The primary way to do this, the best starting point... and I had to go through all of this myself. I mean, I had to go through this deconstruction. The best beginning point is to understand who's at the center of the universe. Why does this place exist? What are we doing here? That's the essential question. That's the best way to approach any discussion about extraterrestrial life.

Leave your presuppositions at the door and just ask the question, who is this place made for? Traditionally, coming from that medieval theological perspective, you're going to get an answer that is in line with what I define as the anthropocentric perspective of the universe, or the anthropocentric paradigm, which places man at the center of the universe. I always tell people envision it like one of those big wooden wagon wheels, and you have the hub of the wheel, and then you have the spokes going out. And think of that as the entirety of created order. That's the universe, whatever the universe happens to be. That's the universe. The totality of the universe represented in a wagon wheel.

And from the anthropocentric perspective, why is this here? Why is there something rather than nothing, as the physicists speculate or wonder? Why is any of this happening? Why am I here? Well, from the anthropocentric perspective, it's all here for us. This place is here for us. We're at the center of this thing. So you can imagine mankind is at the center of that wagon wheel. We're the hub of the wheel. And everything happening in the universe is happening for us. Hey, the universe wasn't even around very long before we were created, because it was created for us. The earth was created for us. Everything is created for us. So everything revolves around us. We're the main character in this story, right?

Eric Huffman: Right.

Timothy Alberino: Wrong. Biblically speaking, that is erroneous. It's grievously erroneous, because that is not what the Bible teaches. The Bible does not convey an anthropocentric perspective. Go ahead.

Eric Huffman: No, I'm sorry to interrupt you. We're having connection issues. So it's a little bit of a lag, but I think... and your follow-up to that, I think you were going to get to it, is that a Christological perspective is more biblically accurate. And I think that is evidence throughout Scripture, even in stories that we now misinterpret, because we look at ourselves as the center stage.

Timothy Alberino: That's right.

Eric Huffman: Like Noah's flood, I think is one great example of that, Timothy. We usually think of the Noah's flood happening because humans just got so bad, and we just became so ill-behaved, and God had to right the ship. There's a spiritual extraterrestrial element to that story in the Bible that most people just miss, because it's briefly covered in the Bible in Genesis 6, the story of the Nephilim. I won't read it for time reasons, but if anybody wants to look it up, Genesis 6:1-5 is the preamble to the Noah flood story. And reason that God took action, drastic action in Noah's flood was not just because people just became so bad, but that we became influenced by these Nephilim creatures, and the offspring that the Bible describes as giants, the offspring of the unholy alliance of fallen angels, sons of men that found the daughters of men to be beautiful and took them.

Timothy Alberino: Lusted after them.

Eric Huffman: Lusted after them. Yeah. More of that material understanding of the angelic realm that you're referring to earlier. Is it fair to say that God flooded the earth, at least in part, because of the influence of Nephilim on mankind?

Timothy Alberino: Partly, yeah. I mean, it was because the earth was filled with violence and wickedness, and it wasn't just human beings who were perpetuating the violence. It was the watchers and their hybrid offspring, the giants. There was some kind of a corruption happening. I think it was a genomic corruption, that there was the genomes of not only the human species, but of other life forms were being corrupted, and that God reset... He had to reset the blueprint. By the way, God selected the animals that would go on the ark. Why did he do that? I think he was looking for the species, the individuals among these species whose genomes were uncorrupted, so that they could populate the earth in the aftermath of the flood and reset the table the way it was supposed to be from the beginning.

By the way, the corporeality of all of this is so evident. This is not something being read into the scriptures. This was the understanding of the second temple period, bar none. All you got to do is read the Dead Sea Scroll texts. I'm not advocating that these things should be scripture, canonized, no, but it gives you an idea, it gives you insight into how Jews were thinking during the time of Christ, by the way. The Second Temple period encompasses the time of Christ. It defines the period from 586 or 587, when the temple was destroyed by the Babylonians, and then up to 70 AD, when the Romans destroyed the Second Temple. The first temple was destroyed by the Babylonians, the Second Temple was destroyed by the Romans. That period in between is known as the Second Temple period.

There's a lot of literature from that period. And we can glean insight into how people during the time of Christ and his apostles and before were thinking about these things, especially the watchers. It's all over the place.

Eric Huffman: Who are the watchers?

Timothy Alberino: The watchers are the 200 angels that descended in the days of Jared, according to the book of Enoch, but not just to the book of Enoch. If you read the Dead Sea Scrolls, you're going to find multiple texts that reference the watchers and reinforce this story and add to it. Of course, Genesis 6 is a bizarre digression in the biblical text. In the Genesis narrative, suddenly you have the sons of God. The Septuagint says, "The angels of heaven lusting after the daughters of men." Okay. Well, that's weird. Then the author makes no attempt to elaborate.

Eric Huffman: It's almost like, "Oh, by the way, I mean, as you know already..." it's like how it reads.

Timothy Alberino: Exactly. "You know what I'm talking about. You guys are all well aware of this." That's why he only has to make brief mention of it. "They lusted after the daughters of men. They impregnated them. The women conceived and gave birth to giants." Everybody knew that. It was already well understood. It was certainly oral tradition. I think it was written somewhere. Actually, that story comes from... it comes from the world before the flood. It was transmitted through Noah.

Here's a strange thing. The Bible tells us a lot about its luminaries, its prophetic and patriarchal luminaries. We know a lot about Adam, and we know a lot about Noah and we know a lot about Abraham and we know a lot about Elijah and we know a lot about all the major and minor prophets and so forth. David, obviously. But do you know who is the greatest prophet in the minds of the Jews? The greatest prophet and the greatest scribe, indeed, the first and foremost on both accounts? Enoch.

Eric Huffman: Wow.

Timothy Alberino: Enoch. And the Bible almost says nothing about Enoch. Isn't that weird?

Eric Huffman: Yeah.

Timothy Alberino: He lived 365 years and was not; for the Lord took him. And then you get a couple mentions in the New Testament that by faith, Enoch, blah, blah, blah. Okay, this is their guy. This is the guy according... and you realize this reading Second Temple literature. This is the guy who invented writing. This is what they believe. He was the first scribe and he was the first and greatest prophet. Certainly in the antediluvian world, the world before the flood. But we got nothing about him in the Bible. Why? Why is that? Because the story was already well-known and it was well-documented elsewhere. Nobody was wondering who Enoch was or what he did or whatever. Everybody understood the narrative of the Watchers from the book of Enoch. That was common knowledge. The Bible doesn't need to retrace that story, to retread that territory, because it was already so well-known. I mean, that'd be like us referencing the Revolutionary War as Americans. Every time you reference the Revolutionary War, you don't descend into an explanation about, oh, it was between the Americans and the British and the George Washington and this and that and the other. You just say the Revolutionary War, and it conjures to mind all of the things we all know to be true about the Revolutionary War.

Eric Huffman: Yeah. You know, all you have to say about the Revolutionary War is something about, you know, tea in the harbor and everybody knows what you're talking about because it's baked into our culture and our lexicon, I guess. Everybody knows it.

Timothy Alberino: That's right. Yeah. This is why in the New Testament, you have Peter referencing the angels who sinned and as a result are chained in gloomy darkness until the day of judgment. He's referencing those angels that sinned are the Watchers from the antediluvian world, as detailed in the book of Enoch. And then you have Jude who quotes verbatim from the book of the Watchers from 1 Enoch verbatim.

People say there's this pervasive idea out there that's being propagated all over social media and all over the internet that, well, it doesn't really matter that Jude quotes Enoch because the writers of the New Testament, they quote poets and they quote whatever, they quote medical stuff. So it doesn't really matter. That's ludicrous. I'm sorry. That's preposterous because Jude doesn't just quote Enoch. Jude says, Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying... and then he quotes Enoch. I'm sorry. There's a big difference between a poet who writes something and a prophet who prophesies. The extract of that prophecy is inserted into the epistle of Jude as scripture. That's how Jude uses it. This is what was prophesied by the patriarch Enoch, inserted into his epistle to make his theological point. That is not equivalent to some poet, some extract from some Greek poet being referenced by Paul. Those two things are not the same. And people need to stop conflating those two things. It's not honest. It's not honest. And it irritates the heck out of me when people do it.

Enoch was the premier prophet of the antediluvian world. He prophesied something, and it was inserted into Jude as prophecy. So we need to take that seriously. At least we know that the writers of the New Testament did. Now, I'm not advocating for the book of Enoch to be incorporated in the canon. I don't care. I'll echo the words of the late Dr. Heiser. The question is uninteresting at best. It's irrelevant, but it's uninteresting at best. I don't care. I'm only interested in whether or not the story is true. Is the story of the Watchers true, which all of the ancient Hebrews believed, all of the Jews during the time of Christ, most of them believed in the Watchers, in the story, the narrative from the book of the Watchers. And it's evident, abundantly evident to the Dead Sea Scrolls. The book of Enoch talks about it. The book of Enoch, the Genesis Apocryphon, the book of Giants, the book of Jubilees and other Dead Sea Scroll documents discuss this affair, this event, it's history to them. And it was history to the apostles. It was history to Jesus of Nazareth. It was history to the writer of Genesis. It was already history to the writer of Genesis. It's not that the story is an extrapolation of Genesis. It's that the writer of Genesis was just like, "Hey, remember the Revolutionary War?" "Yeah." "We don't have to go into that because you all know about it." Remember the affair of the Watchers?

Eric Huffman: It was assumed.

Timothy Alberino: Remember how this led to the flood? And then they moved to the flood... and then the writer of Genesis moves to the flood narrative. So it's indisputable that this was one of the most important things that had ever happened. The Watchers rebelled against the kingdom of heaven. They defected from the kingdom of heaven. They bound themselves by oath of mutual imprecations. They did it. They did this thing, which they knew was going to be a great transgression because they were lusting after the daughters of men. They decided to take them as wives, to copulate with them and to progenerate families. That's what they wanted. And then through their offspring to dominate the earth, to take dominion of the earth. That's what they wanted. That's what they did. And everybody knew it. And here we are today, still bickering about whether or not the Jews believed that that was history or whether or not that's what Genesis 6 is talking about. I mean, it's crazy. All you have to do is read the Dead Sea Scrolls, and it becomes abundantly clear that everybody believed that this was true during the time of Christ.

Eric Huffman: I look for patterns, and the pattern I see in the story of the Watchers, subjugating humanity, lusting after humanity, interbreeding to corrupt God's intended order of creation and the human beings that God made in His image, all of that sounds eerily familiar to some of what we're hearing with UFO and alien phenomena today.

Timothy Alberino: I think we're headed for a Genesis 6 2.0 scenario.

Eric Huffman: Do you? And that's what I assume makes you so passionate about this topic. And it's not because you want to be right or whatever. You just, I guess, feel like Christians especially are missing the boat on something that's so important for people to know.

Timothy Alberino: I am interested in the truth. I am interested in having an accurate theological framework. I don't care about tradition. I don't care about people's opinions. I just want to know what's real. And I allow for the UFO phenomenon, I allow the phenomenon to be what it is. Whatever. What are the facts? What do we know? Fine. It does no violence to my faith in Christ. It doesn't matter what it turns out to be. It makes no difference to me if these are fallen creatures that were manufactured by fallen angels or meat suits for demons, or if they're just sentient beings that were created elsewhere and now they're here doing something nefarious, whatever. It makes no difference. It does not change the gospel of Christ at all.

Now, what we need to be wary of... and by the way, I'm not really even... you know, everybody's up in arms about deception. There's the great deception, warning people about the great deception. Most of human beings living on planet earth are already utterly deceived in regard to the gospel of Christ. They've rejected Christ. I mean, how can you be more deceived than that? Tell me. Is there a deception that's deeper and darker than just rejecting the gospel of Christ, the gift of God? I mean, that's the height of deception. It doesn't matter how that deception is packaged. You can be a believer. I'm sure you know people, I know lots of people. You can be an enthusiastic believer in Christ as a young person on fire for God in high school, you go to university, you encounter atheistic professors and suddenly you're a Darwinist rejecting the gospel. Is that deception any less dangerous than some kind of an alien deception? No. Deception is deception.

And by the way, this strong delusion that's coming into the world, it's ordained by God. The Bible says that it would be so potent at the end of the last days that if it were possible, even the elect would be deceived. If it were possible. So the idea that unless Christians understand the details of this phenomenon, they're going to be deceived, I reject that. I think any Christian who has faith in Christ, whose faith is deep, whose roots go deep in Christ, who know the Scriptures, it doesn't matter what you're confronted with.

Look, you can be confronted with extraterrestrial beings who walk out of a spaceship or thrown to the lions in the Coliseum, and told, "Renounce your faith or you're going to be devoured." If your faith is unmovable in Christ in either of those scenarios, then you're going to choose to die for Christ and not renounce your faith. And you're going to choose to reject any deception that gainsays, that negates the gospel of Christ.

So for me, this is what I tell... People say, well, how do we prepare for this? And this is what I tell them. Let's say you have a flying saucer that, you know, the proverbial flying saucer that lands in the White House lawn and you have these beings that extraterrestrial beings that disembark from the craft. And let's say they look like the beautiful Scandinavian angelic type things. They come out and they say, "We're here to help you. We're going to solve your whatever's going on. Maybe some sort of catastrophe, cataclysm that's unfolding, nuclear war. We're going to elevate your spiritual consciousness and we're going to cure all of your diseases and do all these wonderful things for you. But hey, by the way, Jesus didn't really die on the cross." Well, then it's easy, right? It's easy. Those are extraterrestrial liars. That's it.

So, despite all the things that they say and do, if they deny what we know to be true, the things that are revealed to us and our children, right, the gospel of Christ, that belongs to us. So it's a very simple calculation in my mind. It's very simple formula. I don't care what the reality of the phenomenon is. It doesn't matter theologically. I'm waiting for the message. That's what I'm waiting for. I'm waiting to hear the message. And if the message is some innocuous thing or whatever, or just the fact that gray aliens actually exist and they come from Zeta Reticuli, great. So what, theologically speaking? It doesn't change anything. It's going to force you to rearrange the theological furniture in your brain. Sure. Is it going to be uncomfortable? Yes. But it's not going to breach the doctrines of Christ.

This is why the having the proper paradigm, biblical paradigm is so important as your foundation to approaching these topics. And we talked about the anthropocentric perspective, which man is at the center of the universe, he's at the center of that wagon wheel. But the biblical perspective that really grounds you and centers you for anything that's coming is to remove mankind, to remove man from the center of the universe and instead place Christ at the center of the universe.

This place was made for Him. This is His story. And we're one of the spokes on that wheel. We are not the hub on that wheel, which means there could be eons of history behind us. And the problem that so many Christians have with that idea, well, it's all about us. Isn't it all about us? Aren't we the apple of God's eye? No. The Son of God is the apple of the Father's eye. And don't get it wrong, because if you reject God's Son, then you are going to be destroyed, that's the reality, because His Son is the apple of His eye.

To conclude, what's my worldview? What's my perspective of anything? Extraterrestrial stuff, alien stuff, UFOs, giants, whatever. My foundation is this. It's Colossians 1:15-17. Speaking of Jesus, Paul says, He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him, all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him, and He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. That is the Christocentric perspective of the universe.

This is His universe. It was created through Him and for Him, and He is the main character. We are ancillary characters in His story. That means there could be eons of history behind us that we know nothing about. That means that there could be an effusion of life in the universe that we're not told about. It's not our story. That does not change the gospel of Christ, and it doesn't change our special relationship to the Son of God who became one of us to redeem us. He's our kinsman-redeemer. This is the beauty of the gospel. He left the 99 to come and find the one lost sheep. I mean, this is the story of the prodigal son.

So it doesn't change the gospel. It doesn't matter if the universe is teeming with life or if there's just three things out there. It makes no difference. Hold fast to the gospel of Christ. Jesus was the Son of God who came in the flesh. He died on the cross. He resurrected on the third day, and He's seated at the right hand of the Father, regardless of what revelations come forward in all of this disclosure stuff. Let the truth be what it is. Let the chips fall where they may, and hold fast your faith in Christ.

Eric Huffman: Amen. Bro, you're preaching now. I love it. I love it so much, because what may seem like bad news at the start, which is we're not the center of the story, it's not all about us, is actually the best possible news. Because if it's all about Christ. And you are in Christ, you have nothing to worry about, nothing to fear. We have nothing to run from. Just hope. Just peace. Just join Christ and just receive the gift He's come to give us, rather than getting wrapped around the axle of this world and all of its anxieties. And ultimately, that is good news. That's the gospel, brother.

Timothy Alberino: That's the gospel.

Eric Huffman: Timothy Alberino, thank you so much, again, for joining us on Maybe God. You have blown our minds. I'm still not sure I completely understand everything you've shared with us. You're about four or five steps ahead of us, I think, on this journey. But I'm a fascinated student of your work and others in these fields as well. We fought through some technological issues today and you've been a trooper with that. So really grateful for the time today, Timothy, and hope to have you back on some time.

Timothy Alberino: As I said, it's my pleasure, and I'll join you anytime.

Eric Huffman: Thank you, brother. Have a good day.