How Would Jesus Handle Today's Social Conflicts?
Inside This Episode
In a world filled with outrage, division, and culture wars, how should Christians respond to the most controversial issues of our time — from abortion and LGBTQ+ rights to immigration and politics? Should we speak out? Stay silent? Or is there a third way?
In this episode, Pastor Ted Bryant unpacks The Jesus Method — a bold, compassionate, and deeply biblical approach to engaging hot-button issues the way Jesus did. Whether you're tired of shouting matches or afraid of saying the wrong thing, this conversation offers clarity, conviction, and hope.
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Transcript
Eric Huffman: When it comes to our society's most controversial and divisive issues, how are Christians supposed to respond? Should we take a bold stand and speak the truth, no matter the cost? Or should we stay quiet, so as to not offend people, or to avoid the risk of being canceled?
Today, Pastor Ted Bryant offers a different approach. It's not the loudest or the safest, but it is the way of Jesus.
Pastor Ted, welcome to Maybe God.
Ted Bryant: Thanks, Eric.
Eric Huffman: Brother, it's good to have you here. Just full disclosure for our viewers and listeners, Pastor Ted and I are friends. We have a friendship going back several years now, and we lock arms in ministry and in our church network that we share. It's really cool to talk to you in this medium, Ted.
Ted Bryant: I love being here. Thanks for asking me on.
Eric Huffman: Brother, I'm glad we could make it happen. Let's just talk briefly about who you are. You're a pastor, but what is interesting about your story to me, as someone who sort of walked a more traditional path to pastoral ministry — you know, college, seminary, been doing pastoral ministry ever since—your journey to pastoral ministry is quite different. Just walk us through that a little bit. How'd you end up being a pastor?
Ted Bryant: Well, clearly, Eric, you just knew what you were doing way earlier than I did.
Eric Huffman: Oh, right. I had it all figured out.
Ted Bryant: So I was, you know, coming out of college, I was a biomedical engineer, and God called me into teaching. I didn't have a clue what that meant. So I spent time, after getting married to my wonderful wife, being a social worker, doing some research at a hospital, ended up going to graduate school myself at University of Notre Dame and getting my master's and PhD in cognitive psychology, did research, then I was a professor at a local university before getting called into ministry full-time, at which case I pretty much told God, "I'm glad you're catching up with me, that's what I'm doing, I appreciate it," only to realize that He had something else planned and grew my heart in just obeying beyond understanding.
I'd spent most of my life feeling like I was listening, obeying to God, but this was a major step of trust and sacrifice for not just me. I can do whatever, my wife and I, we could travel whatever adventure, but at this point we had five children and what that meant and the cost. But stepping into that adventure, working at the church and in kids' ministry, which I had no clue what to do, had no experience, and just had a bunch of kids.
And then additional responsibilities being given to me over the years. About five years ago, after I went to Moody Bible Institute for my Master's of Divinity, I ended up being selected as the next lead pastor here, after our founding pastor actually was diagnosed with stage four pancreatic cancer. It was a tragic story there. Loved him, loved what God was able to do through him over those years.
So I stepped into lead pastor five years ago, and now I'm just trying to learn from people like you on how to actually do this.
Eric Huffman: Well, just be careful there. There's a lot of other people you can learn from. That's just interesting to me because I think that explains a lot of what people are about to hear from you, because your perspective is different and surprising for a pastor. People get used to hearing pastors sort of say the same things in slightly different ways. And you come at this from a whole different vantage point, and I really appreciate that about what God is doing in you.
Real quick, tell us a little bit about the church that you lead, because it's not like you stepped into your first pastor at a small or even medium-sized church.
Ted Bryant: Right. Our average weekly attendance is around 5,500 people. And it is a church that we are entering into our 40th year in 2026. So I don't know where you rate that as far as how long we've been around. I'm only the second lead pastor.
We're a church that is founded and grounded in God's truth, and we are part of the network that you mentioned earlier. But that is the substance of who we are as a church, and we are excited to continue to go and make disciples, as Jesus called us to.
Eric Huffman: Yeah, amen. So, you took on this role during a particularly difficult time. Did you ascend to the lead pastor role at this megachurch during COVID?
Ted Bryant: Actually, it was the selection process was happening, it just began when the world shut down. So everything turned into Zoom call interviews, and everything was digital. And then I was selected as the lead pastor in late April of 2020, right as some parts of the world were reopening.
It was just a crazy time. It was an interesting time in our culture in general, because of the social dilemmas that were happening. We had everything that went with the first Trump election, which was from... I'm a social scientist by background, so my master's and PhD is in cognitive psychology. So I oftentimes think from a social scientist perspective.
And to see what our society was going through with his first run into the presidency, along with Black Lives Matter, along with a pandemic, along with our local church dealing with beloved founding pastor no longer leading the congregation, and what is happening leadership-wise, it was... I don't use this word lightly, but I think that our world, nationally and even locally, there was a lot of crises happening. Which if you navigate crisis well, crisis either births or breaks trust. And if, by God's grace, you can navigate it well, then you can actually have exponential growth in trust over a short period of time. Again, by His grace, that's what ended up happening as I stepped into this role with a great leadership team, an amazing staff, and most importantly, a graceful God.
Eric Huffman: Yeah, amen. So, you wrote this book that I had the pleasure of reading. I read an e-copy. I know you have a hard copy there somewhere show us what the book looks like. Yeah, there it is. It's called The Jesus Method. And it is basically about what you just shared about the church being faithful, Christian leaders being faithful during times of upheaval and crisis.
I can think of no better topic for you to write on, given that you started your pastoral ministry at this church during 2020 and over the last five years, which have been just incredibly divisive and exhausting. Every issue is a hot-button issue. Everything is just split down the middle, right versus left.
You talk about in the book that you notice right away people expected things of you that you weren't prepared or even moved to offer. Things like an angry, reactionary response to every single headline or controversy in the news. How did that land with you when you first started feeling that pressure?
Ted Bryant: I would say that it first landed with a sense of, okay, how do I lead individuals and even groups of individuals that are clearly expecting something that I don't believe I'm supposed to give? And yet, I did not have any clear answers in my own heart and mind of how I was supposed to navigate it. So I knew I wasn't really supposed to just succumb to what they wanted, but as I talk about in the book, I had grown up, just like many other Christians had grown up, ill-equipped on how to navigate social dilemmas.
I had been trained to either react like some of these individuals were reacting, be mad, make sure you're loud, make sure you are very proud about your stance and you have the argument nailed down, you have the debate script memorized and you just go right at it. Or if you really love people, supposedly, just be quiet. It's not a salvific issue. You know, it's okay. Just let them do what they're going to do. It's going to be okay. That's what grace means. Just be quiet.
And yet, as I was in this role, I felt not only ill-equipped, I felt irresponsible, to be completely honest, that I did not have a method of navigating this, all these topics, the way that Jesus did. I just had examples in my mind and through my own experience of how other people had done it. But none of those seemed convincing to me and coherent with what Jesus did.
So I just really dove into the scriptures, into the four gospels, and I started to make notes. This is the researcher in me. I just started to research every single time someone tried to trap Jesus. Every time. Every confrontation. What were the questions? How did he react?
And then, you know, again, from my background, I just started to look at, what are the patterns? What are the sequences? Are there any repetitions? Is there anything that I can pull out from all of that data that seems to make some sort of sense as far as the way forward?
And sure enough, it didn't take long. I started to see what I eventually called the Jesus method, that Jesus actually did something different than what I had experienced, both in the secular world and the Christian world. I just hadn't seen what He did consistently. I had not seen that displayed in my own life, regardless of, again, the circles I was in.
I joke that this is the book that I never intended to write. It was just an answer to my own questions that happened to be really helpful, I think, for a lot of other people. And the more I have spoken on it, the more people have read it, the more I've heard feedback of 'this is a method I didn't know existed, but it's given me peace' because I knew the other systems just weren't quite right. But I had no idea that there was another way, that there was actually a different option.
Eric Huffman: Right. Yeah. It's an important book. It's a really well-done book, brother. I'm envious and I'm trying to not commit that sin as a writer. But it was a really quick read, but profound and important because you're not willing to bend the knee to either of the two polarities.
You're talking about people who felt uncomfortable with those two polarities and so they were looking for that third. I think there's a significant number of people inside and outside the church that are very comfortable in the polarities and think everyone should be of the same mind.
There are combative Christians that want to score the points and win the arguments and everyone else be damned. Then there's the milquetoast kind of, let's go along kind of, that's what love really looks like, Christians. And neither way is Jesus in His way.
Before we sort of expound on what The Jesus Method is, we will get into that, but talk to me about what specific issues in your context are the most divisive in terms of your ministry and your church. Which ones present the most, I guess, possibility or potential for brokenness in relationships?
Ted Bryant: There are so many. It really depends where we are located. We're in the Midwest, the upper portion of the Midwest. I'm sure it's different, East Coast, West Coast, and then in the country of Texas where you are.
Eric Huffman: Greatest country on earth.
Ted Bryant: Honestly, that's one of the reasons why I put chapter one as chapter one, just the importance of context that you see Jesus highlight in this whole method. It is the canvas in which he paints. He's very clear that context has to be intentionally engaged, must be aware of who you're talking to, is critically important in order to communicate in the way that He would.
So around here, I would say in our particular area, you have some of the ones that are culturally relevant overall, whether it's sexuality, whether it's gender, whether it's Christian nationalism, sorts of issues, abortion, you know, all of the immigration. You have some of those situations.
And then you also have, I would say within the church context, one of the most polarizing things is, well, are we going to be for the community or are we going to be for those that are already believers? Like, are we quote-unquote missional or are we just like discipleship-focused? That is, I think, an underlying divisive issue within the church overall, is are we more like, go, let's reach those people who don't yet know that they're loved by God, or should we really lean more on the make? Let's equip those, let's equip the ministry, let's equip those who already believe, and let's just focus on that. And usually, the gifting of the apex leader determines which way you naturally are going to bend, focus on.
And so honestly, one of the most challenging things for me in this role is to focus on the "and". It is go and make. There seems to be no separation between seeing the one that God puts in front of you that doesn't yet know they're loved by God and being the one to love them like Jesus. That's a focus. And those that already believe, there are always next steps. No one has arrived. Be wary of pride. You must continue to take steps.
And so, interestingly, that's actually a social dilemma for me as a lead pastor with church people and other people in the larger, broader church in my area.
Eric Huffman: Yeah. Yeah, brother. I can relate to that, man. I hadn't really thought about that as one of the social dilemmas Christians face, but I have felt it. As you were talking, I was like, yep, that's right. Because the people that want you to just nurture and feed the flock at the expense of going out would say, we water down the gospel when we try to draw a crowd. And the people that want to go out and draw a crowd and reach the lost would say, well, when we talk too much Christianese to the flock, then we're alienating those on the outside. That is a very real felt issue for me, in addition to so many of the others.
In Texas, obviously, immigration has been top of the list because we're so close to the southern border. Maybe God Podcast actually produced a film. I think I've talked to you about this, but “Across” was the name of the film, the docuseries, where we just talked about Christians having compassion for migrants and for refugees.
We started that film in 2019 and finished it in 2021, 2022. Boy, did the landscape change in that short amount of time where by the end of the film's production, it was almost, in many Christians' eyes, a sin to say we should love all immigrants, even though the Bible is pretty clear about loving immigrants, because by suggesting we love immigrants, we're saying they don't have to follow the rules, it doesn't matter if they are breaking the law. And gosh, it was messy. Our team, took so many proverbial arrows for even producing that film.
And so much of it, man, to me, I'm not blaming it all on one guy, but Trump is a pot stirrer. He is a divider in a way. I'm not saying he does it intentionally. It's just his effect. Trump has been obviously a dividing line to the point that people who are anti-Trump are going no contact with their family members who are pro-Trump. Maybe you have some of that going on as well. Have you seen the Trump effect at all in your ministry up there?
Ted Bryant: I mean, again, I think that that is very polarizing. I would actually look one level... I don't want to say deeper, but again, I'm a psychologist, so I'm going to say, I want to look at one level deeper. Trump is an expression of a cultural trend of uniformity.
In other words, that if you love me, you agree with me. That agreement, uniformity, is the intention and the product of true love. So you can really put your sail up to that wind, and it's all about if you don't agree, you don't love me. If you don't condone what I'm doing, you don't really care. You cannot support me unless you give me permission.
We have all of these connections sociologically and psychologically between, again, love and complete agreement, acceptance on everything, and condoning, and support. And that's a massive shift sociologically compared to decades ago, last century, especially mid-century, last century. You know, for a lot of human history, unity was not based on uniformity, it was based on a higher level of agreement on a particular issue. And as long as we're centered on that big issue, all the minor issues we'll work through. We'll have to agree on everything.
But that's what's changed, and I believe that some of the political landscape, not just Trump, I think all sides have really tried to catch the current of, nope, there are no superior issues. Everything is at the same level, which means we've got to agree on everything, or else you're out. You know, it's all or it's out.
And that is a shift from, nope, there are some issues that will unite us, and everything else are beautiful facets of a diamond. Different, all the same diamond. So that's the sociological change that's happened, and he took advantage of that.
Eric Huffman: Yeah, he's more of an outpouring of that or a result of that, rather than the cause agent himself. And I think that's a pretty fair way of looking at it, because you could say on the left, you've got the same phenomenon happening over the last, you know, however many years.
I've got a friend who's a democratic politician, but he is a southern democratic politician. I mean, that in the traditional sense. He's a pro-life democrat, which I don't think is allowed to exist anymore. And he has found that to be the case. Offices that he, in a bygone era, would have run for and been supported by the party, he's no longer, just because of that one issue.
Ted Bryant: The platforms, I mean, literally the platforms of the parties politically have changed and been reduced to stances, as opposed to ideological, philosophical initiatives of big government, small government. It's literally come down to, nope, these four to ten stances, this is where we're at. So you just see a reduction of really a shallowing of what unity means, and therefore what love means. It no longer needs to be that strong. It just needs to be agreed upon.
Eric Huffman: Yeah. How do you deal with that in the local church? Do you talk about the fact that you have liberals and conservatives, Republicans and Democrats all together in one community, or is that just not something that you really address openly?
Ted Bryant: It's not something that I address that much. Again, going back to the book and kind of the premise of the book is I fully believe, especially in a church our size, but I think it's true for any church, for any Christian for that matter, when you look at the Jesus method, the level of controversy that you're going to discuss with somebody, the higher the level of controversy, the higher a level of relationship required to actually have a productive conversation the way that Jesus would.
So as controversy goes up in the topic, so also should my relationship go up so that we understand each other's hearts more. That will end in a more productive relationship-focused conversation. And the problem is we, I say we, Christians, non-Christians, don't really abide by that. And so when I'm speaking from the platform to thousands of people, I don't have a ton of relationship with them.
So there are certain things that might be controversial theologically according to how Jesus, you know, what he's doing, loving your enemies, and those are deeply controversial issues of the soul. But topical controversies, politically or stances, those need to be reserved for smaller group conversations, whether it's our life groups, whether it's some of our discipleship classes, whether it's over coffee, because again, as controversy increases, so does a level of relationship required to have a productive conversation.
So I really look at how I talk at retreats, how I talk to a small group, how I talk in a Bible study, how I talk on the weekend, all those change based on the context in which I'm speaking. And that's what I see in The Jesus Method. It's not just Jesus doesn't change the truth, but he does change his deployment of the truth based on who He's talking to. That's what makes Him so brilliant and strategic.
He knows His audience and He knows how to take the same truth, but communicate it in a way that is equally loving, though on the outside, it may sound very different.
Eric Huffman: Yeah. Based on who He's talking to.
Ted Bryant: Exactly.
Eric Huffman: Yeah. I want to circle back to the idea in a second that we should be more judicious about, you know, coming out again, proverbially speaking, guns blazing on our favorite pet political topics on a Sunday morning kind of, because I think we'll agree that there are times when Christians can and should be outspoken faithfully about certain topics and issues.
But I think this would be a good time for us to hear you sort of unpack as briefly as you can The Jesus Method. And you've already started by talking about context. I know it begins with knowing your context, but just sort of lay it out for people that haven't read the book yet.
Ted Bryant: Sure. The start of the method for me is, again, I like to look at patterns. And as I'm studying Jesus in the four Gospels, one of the patterns that I saw about how he handled social dilemmas actually did not happen in the social dilemma conversation itself. It happened outside of those conversations.
And what I mean is one of the most prolific, if not the only, repeated pattern that we see of Jesus is getting away to pray. We see it over and over, and we even have references in Scripture of, you know, He went away to a lonely place to pray. Like He did often. Like, it happens so often that it's just like, okay, I know everyone already knows this, but I'm gonna put it in here anyway, so no one misses it, he's gonna have to pray.
And so to recognize that the method of Jesus begins in prayer. It does not begin with a behavior toward someone else, it begins with a heart posture toward the Heavenly Father. That's where it must start. In prayer.
There is a dependency that we see in Jesus in John 5:19. He didn't do anything unless he saw his Father doing it. There was a living of independence upon God, not living independently, but independence. That's where it starts. That's where it always has to start. And then there-
Eric Huffman: Sorry to interrupt, but so many of our prayers are reactionary. Like, somebody says something that offends us, or something happens in the world that upsets us, and then we're just like, God, show me how to get back at them, or have your justice rain down on them, or whatever. It's like reactionary prayers. And you're talking about preemptive prayer.
Ted Bryant: Absolutely. And then after that, it really is understanding that the goal of any conflict, the goal of any social dilemma for Jesus is relationship. You see that over and over. Every time He's interacting with someone, there's always a questioner behind the question. Always.
And who that person is, and potential relationship with that person, is always more important than just being right. With that as a context, you have this step one of prayer. Step two is identifying, who is this person I'm talking to? What is their relationship? Is their relationship with God?
We see this as Jesus talks about, you know, with His biological family versus those that are listening to Him. He says, Who are my mother, who are my brothers, right? And so we see this bifurcation between the family, which is the term Jesus used, those who are trying to do the will of God. They claim to be following God and trying to do his will. That's who He calls the family.
And then the second group are non-family. And I, in the book, label those guests, because I believe they're invited. They're just not in the family yet, but they are invited. And how you see Jesus treat them and love them is similar to how we typically treat guests in our home. We bring out the best dishes, you know, whatever.
So step one is prayer. Step two is broken up into two different ways. You have, well, if they are family, if the person I'm talking to or the group I'm talking to is family, they claim to follow Jesus and trying to do His will, then you see Jesus empower them and challenge them at the same time. He empowers them to do something, and again, all kinds of examples in the book, and He challenges them.
Now, if they're a guest, He actually takes a very different approach. He cares for them. He provides for them with wherever they are. It might be food, it might be healing, but He provides for them, almost no questions asked.
Eric Huffman: Would you give an example or two of a guest interaction that Jesus has?
Ted Bryant: Sure. Like the feeding of the 5,000. I mean, not all those people were, you know, head over heels in love with God the Father, and here we go. But He provided, He recognized their need, hunger and food. He actually challenged and empowered His disciples. Hey, how are we going to do this, guys? You know? How are we going to go get food and all that? And then after the challenge, He empowered them by letting them distribute the food. But then to everyone else, He simply provided for them. He allowed God the Father to meet them right where they are. And so He provided for them.
And then the second part of how he treated guests is he let them go. He respected where they were. So He didn't "yeah, you ate my food. Before you can leave this hilltop, you must confess that you agree with everything that I have said." No, He fed them, provided for them, both physically and then spiritually with the scriptures, and then He respected where they were, knowing that it wasn't necessarily the end of their journey.
So you have this underlying prayer that needs to be ongoing. And then if it's family, if you're talking to his family, you can go in a very different direction. You can go empowering and challenging and debates and arguments with love and kindness, absolutely.
If they're a guest though, you see this, I'm providing for them, I'm meeting them right where they are, and I'm respecting where they are. I'm not rushing something, I'm not trying to convince or argue something right away. That's just where I'm at. And what oftentimes happens is we get this confused. We see a guest who doesn't believe in Jesus, and many times because of our heart for them, we're like, well, I gotta challenge him. I mean, I have to make sure that I empower them to follow Jesus.
Eric Huffman: Yeah, or rebuke them for their sin and stuff like that.
Ted Bryant: Absolutely. Yeah. We treat guests as family. But they're not family. We can't expect them to be family. And Jesus didn't. That's not what Jesus did. Or we have family that we're just providing for and just letting them go.
Eric Huffman: That's right. No challenge.
Ted Bryant: That's not what Jesus did. So it's understanding who you're talking to. Are they family? Are they guests? That's really the main method.
And then after that, I walk through a lot of different pointers. The pace is always one relationship at a time, the strategy is always about being a witness. And I unpack what that actually means. I think a lot of people have a misunderstanding of what that means. I talk about the goal being relationship.
And I go through several other caveats of what this actually looks like practically in the Scriptures and in our life. But in summary, that really is the Jesus Method. It literally has like two steps. You just have to engage them in all the context of prayer.
Eric Huffman: Well, I love it. I love also your treatment of the rich young ruler who was a guest and Jesus told him to sell all that he had, because again, Jesus understood his audience and what His difficulty was, what His idol was, and gently challenged him in a way, but with sincerity. And then the man walked away and Jesus was willing to let him go. And sometimes we don't so easily just let someone walk away of their own volition without, you know, turning our hearts on them, I suppose.
Ted Bryant: Yeah. Well, we often want for people more than they want for themselves. You don't see Jesus fall into that trap. He fully invites people and He paints a full reality of what it costs. And then He allows us to choose, which is what makes choices so incredibly sacred.
Eric Huffman: Yeah. In which camp, family or guests, do you put the Pharisees, for instance, where Jesus clearly challenged and rebuked them, but they were not, you know, part of the family by Jesus's definition, although some of them came around if the New Testament is to be believed, that many of the early Christians were Pharisees. But where do you put them? It seems almost like a third hybrid category, people that think they're family, but really are guests.
Ted Bryant: Well, yeah, again, with family, there is this, they have put themselves in that category. So if I say I am a Christian or Pharisees, I am a true son of Abraham, you know, I am a follower of heavenly... I am not illegitimate, you know, all the things that they said, they themselves have put that category upon them. They're saying I am the family. And so when someone claims to be a part of the family, I can challenge.
Eric Huffman: Yeah.
Ted Bryant: Because they have put that label upon themselves. Regardless of my own personal judgment at that point, they have claimed that. And so we can enter into a good challenging conversation. What does that mean to them? What does that mean to me? I can totally go there.
The danger is when I make assumptions on whether someone's in the family or not. That gets really touchy. But if some, the Pharisees claim to be, and Jesus just went right into it.
Eric Huffman: Yeah. I think that's the same category I would put folks, I would label false teachers, false prophets, even in today's church, and treating them with due diligence and concern for the family when they pose a threat to unity of the family, right? We have a special category, I guess, for those folks.
I couldn't help but think as I read the book that, I bet Ted, whether it's true or not, I don't know, but I bet Ted took some heat for this because we're in such divided times. And there is such a feeling that if preachers are not standing up every Sunday and laying it down about pick your issue, abortion, immigration, Trump, whatever, Kamala, whatever, like, if you're not laying it down, then you're basically guilty of being derelict in your duty as a man of God or preacher. What do you say to those folks that say, look, we have to tell the truth whether people like it or not?
Ted Bryant: I would say I absolutely believe we got to tell the truth. However, if we do not tell the truth how Jesus told the truth, we end up truly weaponizing the truth because it's not just what we say, it is how we say it.
And in a major cultural current in the West is an overemphasis on what is right and wrong, instead of how to communicate right and wrong, whether it's standardized testing, whether it's performance-based sports, academics, anything.
It is about, regardless of how you get there, as long as you get to the right answer, as long as you get to the right method, that will be way more rewarded than anything about the method to get there. And yet what you see in Jesus is whether it's confrontations with the Pharisees or with Gentiles, some of them had a lot of right answers that they could say, but their heart was not in a good spot. And so how they went about promoting those answers, how they went about communicating those answers were completely wrong.
And so I would challenge anyone that has the honor and privilege of serving a congregation, I would challenge them by saying, how do you believe that truth is to be communicated? But let's set aside for a second what is right and wrong, and let's talk about how Jesus communicated right and wrong. Because that's when you get into, as I talk about in the book, that's what you get into this... it's very sobering to me, it's very convicting to me.
He rarely rebuked anyone in a crowd, except for some of the Pharisees. But I mean, we're even talking like Nicodemus, you know, the famous John 3:16. Well, that's in the context of a personal conversation. I mean, that back and forth was not, you know, on the southern steps of the Temple.
If you actually read the Scriptures more closely, you see a ton of personal conversations. The lady caught in adultery. You know, absolutely, there was a huge crowd, but his conviction of 'go and sin no more' and all of that, that was one-on-one. Everyone had left.
Eric Huffman: Wow.
Ted Bryant: And so it's not about the truth, it's how you communicate that truth. What's the surroundings and the environment? And then eventually, if you go down that path, you get to a major pain point that I got to when I wrote the book. And here's the pain point. That's way too slow. I can't do people one at a time. Like, I can't. How do I do that? I just need to tell everybody what's right all at once and let the chips fall as they may.
And again, I can say that, but that's out of a heart of efficiency-
Eric Huffman: I think you're giving people way too much credit. I think it's out of a heart of, like, it's fun to weaponize Jesus. It feels good to make your point and let everybody else just twist in the wind for being wrong. And boy, it's a dopamine hit, man. If you're in the YouTube world or wherever you're getting clicks, that's what gets the attention is making those kinds of aggressive points.
Ted Bryant: But what I even told some of the people in our church, I said, let's just say go down that road, and I say, "Hey, this is what we should be believing about this thing." What's going to happen? The people that are for that, they'll stand up, they'll clap, they'll cheer. And the people that aren't are going to experience, a lot of them probably yes, are going to go, well, clearly I don't fit here. And I'm simply propagating that God's love is based on uniformity in agreement instead of a relationship.
I said, we're literally diminishing relationship with Almighty God down to yes and no questions on a quiz. How dare we? That is the Pharisaical way. That's not the Jesus way.
Eric Huffman: I just think it's important that people know about you, something I know about you, which is that you are a man of many opinions. You have a lot of strong takes on a lot... every topic that you can imagine, like Ted's got to take.
And it's not that you are by nature, you know, non-combative or milquetoast in your faith. You've got all the opinions and the restraint that that takes is transcendent. It comes from somewhere else to hold back in the interest of relationship instead of winning an argument or making a point. That's next-level spiritual maturity.
But some people, I think some Christians will hear, well, let's follow Jesus's way of interacting with disagreement and hear like a sort of limp-wristed kind of weak, sort of, let's not offend anyone. And that is not Ted Bryant. I know that for a fact. I think what you're saying is that it's not Jesus either, but Jesus is above and beyond our two polarities, as we talked about earlier. I think that's important.
Ted Bryant: Absolutely. I definitely have opinions. And I say, let's go have coffee. Let's talk about it. Let me get to know you a little bit and you can get to know me and let's have that conversation. Again, that pace, one relationship at a time is painfully slow.
So that can do one of two things. It can either really frustrate you, or it can raise your urgency of the priesthood of all believers. It can raise the value and the importance of equipping the saints so that we are all doing this, as opposed to delegating these conversations to a man or a woman leading a congregation.
I think that's one of the most frustrating things that has happened in the Church is that we have delegated our own responsibility to engage these conversations with our friends, with our neighbors, with our co-workers. We've delegated that to a quote-unquote professional leader. But you never see Jesus do that. He is equipping His followers. You go out. You have the conversation. He is with the Holy Spirit. He is equipping us. He is reminding us of all truth. All of us. This has always been, we are either all in... we are all in on this. It's not left... we have different giftings. I get all that. This is above the gifting sort of profile. This is all of us.
I think it just continues to reflect that we have, in the Church, many times not equipped our people in the way of Jesus. Again, it's either be quiet or be really loud. But through Jesus' method, this truly is what we see Jesus do, and we just need to get back to work on equipping our people.
Eric Huffman: Why do you think it seems like so many Christians are more anxious than angry? What's going on with us, with Christians?
Ted Bryant: I love working with students, young adults. One of the things that oftentimes comes up, regardless of the generation, like this was 20 years ago, this was 40 years ago, there's always bullying that happens in middle school and high school, those sorts of things.
And the interesting thing about the cycle of bullying is if you are bullied, and then all of a sudden you become stronger and bigger than the bully, you almost always have a natural reaction to bully them back. And you see the exact same thing with cycles of abuse generationally.
It doesn't make any sense, you know, how hurt you were by those decisions and those actions, why would you repeat that? Because bullying and power is like a rubber band. You get stretched, and it's going to slap back. It just will.
And so I think when you look at society, Christian society, I think ever since the 80s, so 90s, early 2000s, the last three decades, I think Christians have been bullied. And for the most part, they have either gone to the camp of complete silence, we're just gonna do our own thing, or they maybe have spoken up a bit in later decades, but usually it's been the silent. It's usually just take the punch, don't stir the pot.
And then all of a sudden, somehow we get the platform, and we're stronger than the bully, or we're loud, we find our voice, and we simply start to bully back the bully. Unfortunately, it's a very natural cycle that we see in, again, abuse and in violence. It's just unfortunate that I think we've succumbed to that in part because we've not been equipped with any other method. We've not been shown a different way. And you know what? It feels good.
Eric Huffman: Oh, it does. It's very satisfying in the short term.
Ted Bryant: That's why it propagates, because there's a fleshly like, yeah, this feels good. That's right. You can't talk to me like that anymore. And we just go after it. And the problem is, that's a natural reaction. It's not a supernatural reaction.
We must humble ourselves, allow, not just read the Bible, but let the Bible read us, and can be convicted, confess, repent, and let's really go the way that Jesus did, how He laid out how to deal with bullies and how to deal with people that are trying to trap us.
Eric Huffman: That's solid. I'm trying to think of our listeners and viewers now, what they might be asking or thinking. I think one line of thought could be that we should be careful about being too easy on those who are guests, as you say, those who are not in the family, bringing their own ideas into the church and not being corrected, right? Not offering any rebuke of those things. Because what can happen is they can infiltrate the church because people start to get the idea that it's fine to be as they are and to do what they're doing.
And if everybody's so nice to them and nobody's correcting them, then yeah, it seems like that's accepted, whatever that is. You think there's a risk in letting sin go unchecked or letting that sort of thing just go without a strong mandate or something from the pulpit?
Ted Bryant: Okay, so you asked several questions.
Eric Huffman: I'm sorry, I do that.
Ted Bryant: Absolutely, sin going unchecked, a major problem. You know, Matthew 18, let's look at Christian discipline and all that stuff is very, very important. I think a couple things that we see in the early church, inspired by the Holy Spirit, that can help us.
First of all, I just disagree that the majority of correction should come from the pulpit. That's my problem. I think, hey, someone's in the church, praise God, I don't care what state they're in, that bar for entrance is on the ground.
Now, there's another bar, and that is the holy righteous standard of God. We dare not raise the bar for entrance, that should be on the ground, but we also dare not lower the bar of God's holy, righteous standard. So, how do we navigate this?
That is where leadership and relationship come in. I can have someone in the church that is deciding to live a certain way, but if they are stepping into volunteering, if they're stepping into leading in some capacity, well, now we're having a different conversation. And if they're singing on the platform, we have different conversations based on trust and responsibility.
It's very clear to me that in Scripture, we are supposed to earn God's trust. We don't earn His love, but we do earn His trust, and we also earn his responsibility. So now we're talking about trusting someone, giving them responsibility.
Well, those are things that require some earning as far as, hey, we're in agreement, we don't want to ever put you in a place where you have to lie to somebody, and so we want you to be, you know, making certain choices so as other people look to you, they're seeing you try to pursue God's best and His truth, and we'd hate for you to go, oh yeah, well, that's not really the truth. We don't ever want to put you in that position.
So when it comes to correction, we must emphasize the relationship that these people are having. So correction in small group, correction in serving, correction in discipleship classes, membership classes, side conversations over coffee. Absolutely, there should be correction. And then there's witnesses involved, and all that sort of stuff.
I just disagree that massive, like, mass correction on stances should be happening from the pulpit. I think there's correction similar to what Jesus did in the Sermon on the Mount, about how we love our enemies and how we give to the poor. Like, there's all kinds of stuff. But things that are high controversy, I just refuse to say that I'm going to have a productive correction, corrective action the way Jesus did in a massive environment.
I don't see Him ever do that, even with His own disciples. Oftentimes it's one or two, set apart. You know, they're like, "Hey, He wants to bring fire down from heaven," you know? No, chill out. Like, come on, guys. Come on. No, just wipe the dust off your sandals. Don't pray for retaliation. Don't pray for judgment. God's the avenger of all good things. He's the one that judges justly. He's got it. He's all grown up. He can deal with His own judgment and retaliation. That's not you.
Eric Huffman: Yeah. Yeah. I think I'm there with you 95% of the way. I want to leave room for extraordinary or exigent circumstances, I suppose, where... you know, I'm very disgusted by the abortion statistics in America, for example. I don't feel personally disgusted so much as I do biblically and from a spiritual sort of, because of what I believe to be true about every human soul, the mass slaughter. It's disturbing to the point that I'm compelled to speak about it, but how I speak about it matters.
I always try to be clear that it's not in a condemning way. It's not about women that have had abortions or men that have paid for them or whatever. It's about the sin itself and rebuking that in our culture.
It's not like I do that every Sunday. I have rarely talked about it, but I just think... you know, if take another topic, take abortion out of it, if there were a million neighbors dying of hunger in the streets because of greed and corruption, we should probably speak publicly about that and not just behind closed doors, right?
Ted Bryant: Yeah. So I do believe that there can be exceptions. Sure. I just am really cautious that as soon as you open that door, a lot of people step into their own personal passions or positions too much and sacrifice relationships.
Eric Huffman: Burn bridges. I agree with that. For instance, I've spoken about racism, for instance, from the main stage, because I start to see a wave of certain things happening in our culture. And I can speak about it in a way that I think is still corrective, but not at a level that is shaming or condemning. It's more of a guidance than a correction.
Eric Huffman: Yeah.
Ted Bryant: And if I feel like I can do more of a guidance than a correction with the level of relationship that I have with 5,000 people, then okay, I might consider it. But again, you don't see Jesus do that very often at all. And so I'm always cautious.
I rarely see people navigate that well, and especially in today's age of social media and what gets taken out of context and all of that. I don't want to not say something because I'm afraid of how it's going to be taken out of context. I also want to make sure that I am trying to be a vessel to allow God to meet people right where they are and then let Him move them from there. And as He moves them forward, making sure that as a church, we actually have spaces and opportunities to have more of the heavier conversation.
Because that's the other thing. If you expect, you know, Sunday morning to be the entire meal, then I think there are other problems.
Eric Huffman: Yeah. That's absolutely a model problem. I got two more questions. Okay, Ted, first is a case study. And I hope this makes sense. Let's say there are identical twin men, young men. One of them is a leader in training, a member of your church, very active, and the other one is agnostic, not at all sure about God, not a churchgoer, but yeah, he's started visiting lately. Okay. So both of them come in on Sundays, one of them way more in than the other. Both of them have recently taken live-in girlfriends.
Ted Bryant: Okay.
Eric Huffman: Okay. So they're both shacking up with their girlfriends, committing technically the same sin. By virtue of the Jesus method, how would you handle those two brothers differently?
Ted Bryant: I would probably start with the one that claims to be a member or, you know, they're quote unquote in to what Jesus is trying to do. I'd probably talk with him first. And I would just sit down with him and really just start the conversation with, hey, I know that this situation, I would love... will you just talk to me about, how does the choice that you're making, how do you see that play out in Scripture? Like, what are your thoughts? You're following Jesus, and clearly you've made this choice, and I'm not here to shame you or condemn you. I'm here to invite God into this conversation and see where have you gotten to in your heart or mind about this?
It's very much Scripture-focused, but I'm putting the open-ended question on him. And in doing so, I would get better clarity, is he really family? Or maybe he just says certain things, but he's not really.
If he is clearly family, and he's like, oh no, I believe this and this, and these are the Scriptures that, you know, I believe allows for cohabitation or whatever it is, well, then I would press in. And I would talk, and we'd probably pray periodically throughout the conversation, believing that, you know, the Holy Spirit, same Holy Spirit in me as in Him, Holy Spirit talks really well to himself, so let's just bring him into this. That's how that would go.
Eric Huffman: And I'm guessing if he were leading something and he refused to sort of right this wrong in his personal life, there might be some ramifications there too.
Ted Bryant: Yeah, absolutely. There might be some... if he's serving or leading in some capacity, then we would have conversations about that and what God's best is and how we're influencing others and the honor and privilege we have of, you know, follow me as I follow Christ, all of those sorts of conversations, absolutely.
And then I would also leave that conversation trying to empower him, whether it's, hey, let's read through these Scriptures together this next week, and let's get back together. Or let's have this conversation with your girlfriend. Talk about these three issues. Where is she at? I don't know if she's a family member or not. And we can have that conversation.
Now, with the other brother, I would start off really about, hey, I've noticed you've been coming to the church recently. Tell me about that. Tell me about that journey. Like, man, excited to see you here. And so I would get a lot more questions around how is God meeting him? What's his motivation for being here?
And then based on that, I'd probably have a conversation about what is he learning about relationships? And what is he learning about what God has for relationships, the point, the purpose of relationships? What do you see in the relationship between God and his people or whatever? I'd focus way more on the salvation relationship as opposed to trying to correct any sort of behavior.
Eric Huffman: Yeah, especially in the early stages of that relationship, right? It's mostly about what inspired this agnostic young man shacking up his girlfriend to check out a church, right? That's gotta take precedent.
Ted Bryant: We'll have future conversations that keep going from there, but I'm gonna provide for his need right now. There's clearly a need that he's coming to the church, and that's a big shift. So let's step into that.
Eric Huffman: We've all heard of sort of the nightmare scenarios where early on in the process, in first conversations you have with church leaders, if you're a guy sleeping with your girlfriend or living with her, you're made to feel like you're not welcome. I know that might sound extreme, but that does happen in many churches, and it's just such a missed opportunity to burn a bridge before you even try to walk across it. Good stuff.
All right. Last question, Ted. Toward the end of your book, you wrote, "I believe our greatest challenge is not our inability to convince someone to follow Jesus. It's our inability to inspire someone with our own lives to want to follow Him." What's the difference between convincing somebody and inspiring them by the way we live?
Ted Bryant: Convincing is a debate around right and wrong. This is why you should follow Jesus. Here are all the right answers. This is what you get out of it. This is the reward for it. And so I'm gonna address all your doubts and questions, whether it's about young earth, old earth, evolution, whether it's about just any theological topic, I'm gonna give you all the answers. And because of that, you're gonna be convinced into Jesus.
Very few people get convinced into relationship. And so, however, people are drawn to other people. Relationships are about wanting to be with someone. And so as I see a married couple, for instance, before I was married, there's plenty of examples of unhealthy marriages. But if you ever see someone that they've been married 30 years and they light up when the other person walks in the room or the way they treat each other is just inspiring, there's something about that that goes, huh, wow, that's kind of cool. Maybe that is possible. I want whatever they have.
And I think that in this day and age, in some ways, we're moving with AI—and that's a whole other podcast—we're moving past the power of raw knowledge and convincing people, and we're moving back to true relationship. Who am I safe with? Who am I comfortable with? Who is a few steps down the road from where I want to be that I'd like to follow along?
Man, they seem to have purpose and meaning and peace, and those are things that I'm missing that I want. Similar to Jesus, the, hey, come follow me, as I follow Jesus. But I think we're getting back to if we just lived the way that Jesus did, and we listened and obeyed, we were a witness to what God is doing. And being a witness is not about debating or arguing, it's reporting. This is how I experience God. I want to tell you about it. And then never forgetting what God's done for us.
If we just live like that, I think there is inspiring potential beyond our imagination and way beyond the power of raw convincing and knowledge. I think that is dwindling. I wish we could focus... you know, there are so many young people, so many people in general walking away from faith. And I think a lot of times it's because their faith has been based on just they were convinced of certain answers or certain promises, and they were never truly inspired into the best relationship ever with the Almighty God who is awesome. And if we could just help people be inspired by that.
Eric Huffman: Amen. The hunger for connection is growing. It is real. And we should be ready as Christians. And one more reason I'm grateful for you, Ted, and for your book, The Jesus Method. I hope everybody watching or listening will consider picking it up, and you'll be glad you did. It's really an inspiring book, brother. So congratulations on writing it, and grateful for you and your fellowship in the gospel.
Give me a prediction. Notre Dame preseason rank seven in college football. Notre Dame or the field for the National Championship?
Ted Bryant: Well, I have to get Notre Dame.
Eric Huffman: All right, I figured. It's on the record now. We'll check back. All right, brother. God bless you. Thanks so much for your time today.
Ted Bryant: Thanks, Eric.
Eric Huffman: All right.